How To Recognize The Signs of An Abusive Relationship with Dr. Loretta Billoups Artwork

Ebb and Glow

Welcome to Ebb and Glow — the podcast that shows you how everyday people are taking on life’s ups and downs and coming out better than before. Your host, Jenelle Tremblett, will be with you weekly and with special guests, to chat about everything from careers, relationships, mindset, and everything in between. Are you tired of only seeing the highlight reel? Me too. This podcast will instead be peeking behind the curtain to reveal all the steps, pep talks, and glasses of wine that must happen before we become strong, confident, and resilient.

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Ebb and Glow

How To Recognize The Signs of An Abusive Relationship with Dr. Loretta Billoups

January 24, 2023 • Jenelle Tremblett • Episode 118

#118: Dr. Loretta Billoups shares stories of her past marriage and how it was physically and emotionally abusive. Although it was a difficult and challenging relationship, she refused to let it dictate her life.

Today, Dr. Loretta Billoups is both a clinician and a relationship and mental health coach.

Dr. Loretta's Ebbs

Abusive relationships
Losing weight from stress
Control and isolation in relationships
Manipulation
Infidelity

Dr. Loretta's Glows

Believing in herself
Finding a new sense of freedom
Getting remarried
Learning to change her circumstances
Learning gratitude

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Jenelle Tremblett: Website | Instagram | TikTok

Podcast: Website | Instagram | TikTok

Dr. Loretta Billoups: Website

0:00

Welcome to the ebb and glow podcast. I'm your host, Janelle Tremlett. And I'm a firm believer that even when life doesn't go as planned, it is taking you exactly where you're meant to be on this podcast. I'm here to help you finally release control of what you think you want and begin to just trust in the ebbs and flows of life. Each week, I will show you how to build that positive mindset radiate with self confidence and cultivate an unshakeable resilience. Let me prove to you that even when life ebb. You will glow.

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Hello everyone. And welcome to episode one 18 of the Eben Glo. Glo

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podcast.

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Today's episode is all about abusive relationships and how to recognize the first signs of a potential abusive relationship. Today's guest is Dr. Loretta Billups and it was so fantastic to have her on. We recorded this episode before Christmas. So you'll notice in some of our conversations that we are talking about the holidays and the stress of the holiday. So that's why. In this episode, the biggest EB for Loretta was her previous marriage. She says it was difficult and challenging relationship. However, she refused to let it dictate her life. And to hurt. She always views it now as a teachable moment and a story of survival. And she'll tell this story throughout the episode, and maybe you or someone, you know, will recognize themselves in it. And hopefully you can make the changes a lot sooner than Loretta did in her story. I asked Loretta how she navigated this time of her life. And. She realized in those moments that

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it was

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finally time to start putting herself first. And if she didn't, then she wasn't able to be a good mother to her children. Loretta says she started working first on her. Self-esteem her mental health and physical health. And next she created a safe space for her children and herself to grow and live the life they truly deserved. Throughout the end of the episode, you'll hear through Loretta stories that she feels that she's stronger because of everything she's went through. And a lot of people tend to tell that story no matter what they go through, they, they say that I wouldn't be who I am. If it wasn't for that. And Loretta also links all of this past to her being able to accomplish all the many goals that she has so far, including earning her doctorate degree in psychology. And you'll also hear about her career changes throughout. To give you a little insight into who Loretta is. So Dr. Loretta Billups is both a clinician and a relationship and mental health coach. She obtained master's degree in forensic psychology and received her doctorate in applied clinical psychology from the Chicago school of professional psychology in her previous career, she was employed by the Los Angeles county Sheriff's department. And for almost 12 years, it is her life experience, education and career choices that have led her to become both a clinician and transformational. Coach. As a coach, she works with clients who are seeking clarity in their relationships and their mental health. She assists both individuals and couples with reaching their highest potential, and she holds her clients accountable so that their deepest desires and aspirations are now a reality when Loretta is not working with her clients, she spends quality time with her family and enjoys casual walks on the beach, which I'm very envious of knowing that she lives in California. You're going to love this episode. And if you are listening today, reach out to me and say what you've loved about this episode. It's always so great to hear from people. And if you are interested in some relationship coaching, feel free to reach out to Loretta as well. Okay. Without further ado, enjoy your day wherever you're listening to this and enjoy the episode.

3:39

Claretta, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm just amazed at how early you are awake and ready to go and you look so put together. And when I asked you, so for everyone listening, we're three hours different. So I'm recording this at 10:00 AM and it's 7:00 AM for Loretta and I, I asked her, I was like, are you sure? Seven AM's Okay. She's like, she's like, I haven't slept in since the eighties. Exactly. Which I thought was really funny. which is very true. Oh my. I was, up so late writing holiday cards for, oh, like I said earlier, I'm getting so much done. So holiday cards for all my clients. Yes. And I was up late and even for this 10:00 AM recording, I was like, oh my God, I need to get a coffee in me. I like, let's go. So I need to take a page out of your book on how to get up very early and be fine. I don't know if you wanna page in this book but you know what, I think I seriously, I haven't slept in in so long that. It just comes natural to me to get up this early. But the downside of that is like by seven 30 when everybody's probably ready to go out, I'm like, okay, good night I have a close friend that's very similar and it's funny, she's up with the birds like I always say, but she, she's my age, so she still loves to like party and go out and stuff. Yeah. And it hurts her like by seven 30 she's like falling asleep. Exactly. She's been up since. Yeah, exactly. And that's my story too. I'm like, all right, so if you could turn off the street lights, I would appreciate that. Cuz it's night night, I know obviously the winter doesn't affect you as much being in California, but my God, it gets gloomy and dark here around 4:00 PM Oh wow. And it's winter. We're about five. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And we've had a lot like gray. Oh yeah. You know, California is hit and miss, so you might go outside today and right now it's pretty sunny. Yeah. But tomorrow might be overcast and cloudy. Couple days ago I went outside to leave for work and it was like ice on my windshields, so you never know. Oh, I've never been to California. I wonder if I'd love it. What part? Like right in Cal. Like what? Like, like I'm LA County, Los Angeles counties. But I'm really close, I would say about 15, 20 minutes at the most from the beach from like Redondo Beach and Tourance Beach and things like that. So, yeah, it's, it's, it's beautiful. I think that's why people come here because of the weather and I guess everybody's quest to be famous. Oh yeah. Yeah. I feel like I would really like California. I just. I think I would miss winter Sometimes though, like I do enjoy winter, I enjoy winter sports. I enjoy the time of year when it starts getting cold and cozy. I don't know if like the holidays would feel the same if it wasn't for winter for me. Ah, so you want the snow. I love the snow. Oh, well you could get that in Northern California. Yes. Just an hour drive away. It's big bear and big Bear snow's up there, so, oh, you could, could still have it. Mm-hmm. you could have it all there. You could have it all. Love that. You could have the, the surf on one side and you could have your snow on the other. Oh. Don't tempt me, Okay. I wanna get into it. I wanna ask you a bit about your story, but first I wanna ask you, is there anything going on in your life lately that's kind of stressing you out or setting you back or even any big wins that you've had lately? Oh God, I, I have a lot of stress going on in my life. Currently I think the, the biggest stress, and I, I know I'm not alone in this, is the fact that it's the holidays. Yeah. And you're trying to prepare and ultimately, you know, if you have children or. You know, of course loved ones. Um, You want to be good to them and they don't want, you don't want them to get a lump of coal in their stocking, so, you know, you really thrive to like, get them something, you know, really nice and personable. You know, I try not to do gift cards. You know, so I'm like, you really try to think about the person and like, what would they like? And that means I gotta spend time at the store, which I don't like doing. So it's very stressful. And now Christmas. A week away and all I can think about is I need four more weeks. And clearly that's not gonna happen. So yeah, I'm, I'm definitely feeling the stress right now and I, I kind of just wish I could hibernate, I can bear, I feel that way. Wake them when it's over. Like, is it over now? Okay, I'll come out. how do you deal with the stress? We were chatting a little bit about this before I hit record and I was saying like, I have a crazy to-do list and for me how I'm getting through it, it's like I'm looking at it and it's like, what do, what really needs to get done? Like what if, if randomly some of these things fell off my to-do list and never got done, would it be okay? And that's how I'm kind of deciphering like. Almost like let it go you know? Yeah, yeah. I think you, you kind of have it right. Look, definitely look at your to-do list and prioritize, right? Like, if something can definitely wait for next week, then let it wait. Um, Knock the, the things that are priority out of the way and everything else will just have to come when it comes. And. I know it's easy for me to say this, but obviously try not to stress out. Like really take this time and incorporate some self-care and self-preservation because you're no good to anyone else when you're struggling and stressed. And then of course, all the physical things that come with stress that people don't think about. Like, you know, the stomach aches and the acne and all the other things, you know. Really prioritize and, and don't forget to throw some self-care in there because you need to be at your best too. Yeah. I feel that as I'm recording this a little stuffed up and I feel the aches in my back, but the show must go on at all time. The must, like we're saying. Right? Oh my goodness. Yeah. I'm very impressed and curious about your. Career path. How do you go from a deputy sheriff to working in relationship and mental health coaching? It's a bit, it's a very, very different Oh yeah. Um, So there's a lot of psychology in your background, so obviously you've always been absolutely experienced about humans. Absolutely. Yeah. For, for many reasons. I could recall even before that I was on the department. As a deputy, I was always very curious about humans and my, one of the, my favorite things to do was to. Just sit and watch people as they go about their daily lives. Like they'd be sitting at a park and you know, just watching them. And I would try to figure them out, like, oh, that couple, clearly they're not getting along. Look at their body language. You know what I mean? Or whatever. I was just always very curious about humans and why we do the things that we do. But the reason I got into law enforcement, it wasn't because I was. Save the world or anything like that? It was cuz I was trying to save myself. I, at the time I had I was going through a divorce and I'm laughing cuz I was like, you could've done anything else but you chose to go into law enforcement. But I, I really was looking for a way to feed my kids, honestly. Right? And, and it paid very well. And I was like, Hey, I think I could do this. Um, Before that I was an insurance agent and somehow I don't know what I was doing that day. I believe that the universe responds to what you need. And I was looking at something and like an ad came up and I was like, why not, you know, not thinking. You know, like literally just take one step at a time. Like if I get through the interview, we'll see. And anyway, so long story short, you know, I made it through the backgrounds, got through the academy, got my first assignment, and like I said, it was just a way to feed my kids. And then I end up loving it. Like, oh, this is amazing. And it was, you were surprised. I was surprised. Yeah. To love it to, yeah. Yeah. I really was. Cause I was just like, again, I'm just here to feed the kids. That's it. Yeah. and then once I got into the field and working with my different partners and different assignments, that's when the. The curiosity in terms of mental health, Pete, because I started seeing things like working in the jails. Like I remember the first time I saw someone and I didn't even have the lingo then I didn't know the, I didn't have the verbiage. I just knew something wasn't right. And I remember seeing this gentleman in a, in a cell, and he was terrified and we couldn't under, I couldn't understand why, like what? Afraid of, and he was in the cell alone and he was looking around just like very curious, and he was just, Scared outta his mind and he had stripped down, it was completely noon and had, you know, used the bathroom on himself. And I was like, what is going on? And you know, then, you know, of course now looking back, like he was completely psychotic and having auditory and visual hallucinations and, you know, those things are terrifying. And so that's when I really took off and was like, this is something that. I might be interested. And then the other part of that is that I had or still have family members. who started to develop also mental illnesses like depression and anxiety. And again, I didn't have the verbiage for that. I just knew something wasn't wrong. Yeah. So it was those two things that compelled me to want to go down a path of mental health. Mm-hmm. And after working in law enforcement for so long, I decided like, this is probably a good time to pivot and went back to school, got my masters. and then eventually resigned and then completed my doctoral degree. Wow. How many years of schooling was that? God, for my master's was two, and then my doctorate was three. Wow. But I, I've been in school forever cuz I literally started with my aa Wow. So I started the AA bachelor's and got the whole gamut after that. Wow. So I, I think I have 10 years of schooling. Wow. It's a lot of schooling. psychology, mental health is such a, like an umbrella, but you seem to really have gone down the relationship coaching. Why? Yeah, because I think that. My experiences with relationships. I tend to be the friend that gets the late night phone calls. Girl, you know what he did, girl, he did this. You know what I mean? I'm like, I told you. Mm. Like, I saw it from a mile away. Yeah. Five conversations ago, this was not going to go well. Mm-hmm. um, you know what I mean? But I was that friend. And confidant. And then I was like, you know what? I might have something here. And then that's something else that I really enjoy because again, you're dealing with humans and human nature, right? And in relationships, our experiences included childhood really sets the tone for the type of relationships we're going to encounter. Is my belief and how you play out those parts in your relationship. So I was like, huh, I could add this to my repertoire. And I, I've really grown to love it and enjoy it. Do you work with couples or more like people on their own? Mostly. Both. Both. So, mostly couples. It always starts out. Of course, an individual in the relationship reaches out because they're experiencing some sort of challenge in their relationship and maybe feel like their partner isn't listening or maybe they feel like the relationship is going south and they're trying to salvage it. So it starts out there, but I always meet with the. Couple, at some point in the relationship, even though maybe that main person is my client, at some point I will meet with their partner at least maybe two times to get their perspective of things and then go back from there. If it's just an individual, it's because they are struggling finding love, I guess. And I am just trying to see like if there's anything that they could do to maybe better themselves and find a, a good partner. Hmm. Relationships. Oh my God, I love talking about them. I, right. I always say to everyone, relationships is the mirror that you do not wanna even look in because it brings up everything that you still need to heal. Right. In my opinion, right. So it, it's no surprise that the conversation around relationships a lot of the time is conflict and triggers and insecurities, and someone's not listening and it's it's no surprise, but it, it makes you wonder. It's like the, the healthy relationships or the relationships that we deem as successful, what the hell are they doing differently? You know, right? Absolutely. And you know, the thing. I think you kind of touched on it earlier prior to the recording. On the outside, it seems as everything is going good, right? Like we, everybody puts up this facade. You know, I'll share with you, like, when I first started doing relationship coaching, I would go on social media and put like posts just to see like, People's thoughts that they know like, are you, are you experiencing, you know, fill in the blank whatever. And I would getting any response, like no one would say anything. Or I would say like, has the D word come up? Divorce? Right. And I know for a fact. You're my friend's circle, and I know you talked about divorce so answer my post and so answer the post and nothing. And I'm like, huh, huh. And then I realize, you know, like it's a very private topic. No one wants to really talk about those challenges that they are facing in their relationship. Everyone wants to, you know, come across that everything is okay. And you know, I, I respect that to some extent. But I think at the end of the. You know, we all, there's no relationship without a challenge. There's no relationship without an argument. Uh, If you don't have an argument in your relationship or some sort of disagreement, you, you're probably in it alone cuz you're human. Agreed. So we're gonna have differences, you know what I mean? But like I said, I respect the fact that people want to be private, but I also do think that we should be somewhat transparent and talk about this because number one, it'll, it, it really does help to talk about those things and try to problem solve. And number two, you don't know who's listening and they need to hear that, hey, you're going through the same thing too. Like maybe you're somebody that I could lean on, or you could, we could work together to figure this out, but, Yeah, it's, it's a lot of challenges out there. I mean, people just don't really wanna talk about it. I resonate because I've been in relationships in the past, and I don't really tell my friends or family what really went down until it's all over said and done with. Yeah, and I was recently having a conversation with a friend about a previous relationship and she said, I had no idea that was going on. Mm-hmm. and I kind of smiled and it's like when you're dating someone, you wanna protect them, right? Like you want other people to like them, you, right? You don't want people to think like, The, there's things going wrong in your relationship. There's a lot of shame around it. Mm-hmm. So yeah. It's, it's, it's not until it's all said and done with that and your friends and family feel like, oh my God. Like I could have been there. I could have been a shoulder or an ear to vent to, but I didn't know. Right. Right. Or sometimes they're the first to know. Yeah. And you know, because we are behind this cloud of I love him, you know, whatever have you, we don't see it. Or maybe we see it and choose to ignore it, you know, just depends. But yeah, there is sometimes a lot of shame and embarrassment. And like you said, you do wanna protect your partner. Mm-hmm. um, because maybe you believe in. That maybe this is, you know, maybe they're just going through a difficult time right now, right? And they just need some time to grow and learn and, you know, we'll work this out and then we'll be able to share our success story. You know, like, you know, he was going through some things, but look at us now. You know what I mean? Everybody wants that, that story, you know? So, but yeah, you're right. We try to hide behind it until maybe things get better and then at that point we're willing to share. But sometimes, You know, you hid behind the the wall for so long, you start to lose visual of who you are. Mm, because you put this front up for so long and you may get to a point where you don't recognize yourself anymore. Yeah, I know. And then you wonder, it's funny when you start actually showing who you are and revealing who you are, it seems like that's when the problems start coming. And then there's a lot of self-worth issues that come up in terms of like, oh, they don't really like who I am. Now that I'm kind of feeling more comfortable to open myself up. Right. And there goes the spiral. Right. Absolutely. Yeah. Because at some point, you know, everybody has that honeymoon stage, and I believe that we all put our best foot forward, you know, maybe the first six months, maybe a year, if you can get that far, you know, and you are like, oh, I like, I'm laughing because I'm like I am habitually late, a chronic late person. Thank you. Thank you. I, I'm like, I don't under, what's the point of being on time? Anyway, I'm working on that I'm working on it in 2023, so I feel Exactly, yeah. It's a hard one for me. It's, it's, I'm like, I'm always late and I have the best intentions, but whatever. Yeah. And so that's, You know, something that I I still struggle with, but I remember my cousin telling my now husband before we got married, she was like, she's always late. No matter what you do, no matter lie to her, tell her it's at eight o'clock. You know, even though it's at, you know, whatever, just lie to her because she's always late. So, in the beginning I did my best to try to you know, be on time or whatever cuz I didn't want him to. this was a thing. Yeah. Um, But now, but the truth came out after. Exactly. Now he knows I love that you brought up this example because I went on a first date recently and I was just in my head about it and I ended up just like losing track of time and being late and like 15 to 20 minutes late. And he's definitely the type of person where. That is a big sign of disrespect for him. Oh. And I felt really, I felt really guilty. I was like, in my, I, I was getting really in my head saying like, oh, I've, I've fucked my chances up with this guy. Mm-hmm. blah, blah, blah. Mm-hmm. But then the next day, the next few days, like I said, I said to myself, if that was gonna be the deal breaker, it was gonna come up in a week, a month, or three months anyways. Cuz I am known to be not on time. So. Right. If, if that, if that was gonna be the end. Better now than that. Better now, later on. Exactly. Exactly. No, but I still wanna work on my lateness because I don't like that quality about myself. So Yeah. But I will work on that on my own time. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And then, you know, that's, it's a thing, you know what I mean? Like Yeah. I, I, I'm sure for some people they're like, oh, that's very disrespectful and inconsiderate. And to me, I'm. That's, yeah, it, it can be, I, I see that, but there could be worse things, you know, like, I agree. Oh, maybe this person is like, have some underlying self-absorbed issues or trust issues or other, you know, other things. But again, we wanna respect our partners wishes and, you know, if, if being truant is an issue, then of course we wanna do. Yeah, we'll try Mm-hmm. right. We'll try. I wanna ask you about, I wanna dig into like backtracking a little bit. Mm-hmm. about when you're going through something with, or say like a relationship's not working, you're going through it and you tend to keep a private, I know you've spoke about going through divorce and that Yeah. Your previous relationship was a bit abusive. Did anyone know anything was going? or did you keep it a lot of it private? Mm. I kept a lot of it private. Yeah. Because I didn't want anyone to know that. That's embarrassing. You know what I mean? Yeah. Um, And, and it, it shouldn't have been. And, and it, yeah. At all it shouldn't have been because I really needed A lot of support then, and I should have said something maybe would've allowed me to get out of the relationship faster. But I, I didn't say anything. I, I think they noticed, not because I had bruises or anything. Yeah. But I the other part of it is when I stress talk about those physical symptoms, I. Food is not a thing, so I really forget to eat. Yeah. And because of that, I had lost a tremendous amount of weight in that relationship multiple times. Um, And I think they knew something was wrong. I remember my family hadn't seen me for like six months, cuz at some point in our relationship we lived in Colorado cuz he was in the military. Mm-hmm. And so I came home on like one of his breaks and I remember my cousin saw me in her mouth just. Like, wow. Like so like an unusual amount of weight. Like this is not a healthy amount of weight on Exactly. Like drop like 20, 30 pounds drastically. Wow. And I didn't notice at all. It was the stairs. From other people. Like, like, you don't look so good. You look really, you know, you, you look, you don't look healthy. Right. Um, Because I was so busy living in that world of surviving that I didn't even notice. Yeah. Yeah. We talked about red, red flags. Mm-hmm. So at what point of the relationship did it start getting abusive? I would say before the marriage. Wow. Even before the marriage, that it was physically and emotionally abusive. Definitely for sure. Emotionally abusive before, but again, you live under this cloud like. Oh, it's gonna get better. Or if we just do this, nothing, nothing's healthy, right? Like let's go to counseling. It wasn't, that was not my thought. Yeah. Like if I just maybe don't cause a fuss or if I. Maybe if I cook dinner all time or make his favorite meal or whatever. Yeah. Like in my head it was like, it'll get better. You know what I mean? And then we'll live this fairytale of happily ever after. And of course that's not the case, but it started really early. I mean, it has to because in, in the world of an individual who is who is abusive it has to start off with some sort of manipulation or. Right, right. You know what I mean? They have to, they have to do that. They have to get you in your corner that you start to isolate from your family. And friends, you know, at some point you're gonna start seeing less and less of them because you're gonna be involved in their world. And that's part of the plan always. So it, it starts really early and I don't care what relationship it, it you're in when you're with an individual like that, those are the first red flag. The control, the isolation, the manipulation that's where it starts. Right? I'm reading a book. I am just about to finish a book and a big part of the book is around Yeah, the woman was abusing her relationship. So the, what you said, where you said, I was al always just trying to make things like right, like. Cook dinner on time or just get outta the way, or you're always almost like maneuvering things to avoid being hurt or something going wrong, and the hum amount of stress that that adds to a person is insane. Mm-hmm. it's, and correct me if I'm wrong, like it's almost like the actual abuse is not the stress. It's almost like the anticip. For it. Right? Exactly. Exactly. Like what is going to happen? You know, you're, you are constantly walking on eggshells. Yeah. Cause you don't know. You don't know what's gonna you know, come you know, something is coming. You just don't know what it could be the form of. A backhand, it could be a form of yelling or something being thrown across the room. It really just depends. But, you know, something is coming. So you're constantly walking on eggshells. You're in fight or flight at all times. Yeah. Because you don't know, how does that affect your daily life, like knowing that's happening in your environment at home? How does that affect work and how you deal with family and friends and just how you live your everyday life? it's almost as if you develop a, a. I don't know, like another personality or something like that. Because when you're in public and when you go to work at least for me it was, I'm happy. Everything is great, right? You put on that front, you go to work, you perform really well. Listen, I would volunteer to stay late cuz I didn't wanna go home. Right? You know what I mean? So for me it shifted where I was like the best employee. Wow, because I, cuz it was also a really good distraction. Like if I could just print out these, you know, assignments and reports or whatever have you, because it was, it was a getaway. So, but I know with some people it will affect them the opposite way where they're not performing because they can't. Disassociate, you know what I mean? So they are constantly thinking about, you know, what's going on in home or whatever. I was able to compartmentalize them, just like, this is what I was able to do. I don't know if that was so good, honestly, because Fair. Um, It's, you're def you're avoiding all the feelings and you're almost, yeah. Like you're letting the stress, stress, stress, stress, stress build up. Mm-hmm. Exactly. And then again, hence the weight loss and the other physical symptoms or whatever have you. So, but that's how I was able to deal with it, that I became like this really good performer at work and no one at work would've, I don't think, would've known the wiser. Wow. Maybe they know this. No one ever said anything to me. When you, hindsight's always 2020. So after you went through that divorce and got entered that relationship, did you, did you ever look back and say, oh my God, the writing was on the wall from the very first few days? So what did that look like for someone listening today? I would say definitely, like I said, the control and the manipulation that started really early. You know, cuz you know, in our, first of all, I was 18 when I met him, so I was already young and immature as it is. And so I, I think it started out okay. I, I really felt at some point we were truly like madly in love. Yeah. In the beginning. But like I said, I think the, the control definitely started early where, you know, the guilt trip you like, oh, I have a family function. Oh, so you'd rather spend a. Whatever with this family and not me, you know, whatever have you. You're like, okay, well I'll just let em know that I can't make it. Or if you could just pop in for 20 minutes and then we'll, you know, stuff like that. So, but looking back, that's definitely how it started. As you say that, it doesn't sound that bad when it's right at the beginning and small. Like someone could look at that and say, oh, like he loves spending time with me. We're so good together. Mm-hmm. he, he wants to get to know me more. It's very easy to change the, the connotation of that. Right. Exactly. And when you're, and that's exactly what you think when you're in it, you're like, he just wants to spend time with me. He just can't live without me. Yeah. You know what I mean? And then you're like, oh, this feels really good cuz this person's clearly, constantly thinking about me and wants, you know, us to be together and he can't. You know, foresee himself without me in that moment. But that's the lie we tell ourselves. And that's what they want you to believe. until it all come crashing down and then you realize, oh crap, I'm in trouble. What was that moment for you when it came crashing down, where you, you thought to yourself, what, like where did this come from? I think that moment came much later than it was supposed to because at that time we already had two kids. And so my focus, how old are they now? They're adults. How old were that time? At the time, they were probably like five and seven. Wow. And so my whole focus were, was protect. Focus on them. You know, I'll deal with whatever, but I just wanted to protect them. Yeah. You know? And then the other part of that too was at some point in the relationship, the, he began to cheat, you know, the adultery side came out. And that, that happened many times. But. Again, I was just, at this point, I was just really focused on my children and kind of in my head wanted to make sure that they were safe and they weren't at all. Yeah. Um, Because they're witnessing things, you know what I mean? And they're hearing things, but I thought that they were, they were safe. But it wasn't until year 10 that somehow I began to. Believe in myself, wanted better for myself, wanted better for my two female children that I was raising. Cause they needed to know that this is not okay and that they're by no means should they be in a relationship when they become adults. That's like this um, that I started to develop the strength to say, you know what, no more. And it's the funniest thing when you get to that point, because I remember again, this is after like years. Mostly emotional abuse and him cheating many nights of him not coming home. And, you know, drinking. And I remember one night he was in the living room. Our kids were at his parents' house for the weekend, and something literally just came over me. Now I'm sure I was having these thoughts of, I need to leave. I need to leave. But that night, for whatever reason, I got. I was in the bedroom. I got up, I got dressed. I put on something really cute. I did my makeup that I hadn't done in so long, right? And he was sitting in the living room and I walked into the living room and I just looked at him and I said, when I come back, you need to be gone. He's like, what did you say? And I said, you heard me when I come back, you better be gone. And he didn't ask a question, he didn't say anything. Maybe I didn't give him enough time because at that time I walked out the door and I met friend of mine at Dave and Buster's, and we just sat there and had like a couple drinks, ate, laughed and talked. I told her what I had said, and when I came back, maybe two hours later, he was gone. Wow. Yeah. He didn't put up a. He didn't put up a fight. He wasn't, he was seeing someone else, so it was probably a blood. He's like, great, I could go live this other life. He was seeing someone else while you guys were still living together and you knew about it. Yeah. I wasn't happy with it, but he was definitely, wow. Seeing someone else he was in, he would of course lie to me, but I knew that he was seen someone. Yeah, cuz she would call the house, you know what I mean? And Oh God. Yeah. I mean bold, right? Like she would call the house and ask for him and you know, her and I would get into it and I'm like, you realize he's a married man? And she would hang up on me or he would do the, the late night thinking. I'm not noticing he would get up and go to his. And they would talk on the phone. Yeah. Oh God. And then I would go to the car and then I remember one night I was like, who are you talking to? And he's like, it's just my friend. And I was like, lemme see the phone. And then when he gave me the phone and I took it, she hung up. But I knew something was wrong. So anyway, he, he did leave that night. And now I just remember like this new sense of freedom. Yeah. It's one of the first thing I experienced. Yeah. Do you think the feeling of freedom overpowered any feelings of being scared? Like you're now you're, you have two kids on your own, like you don't know what's next, but it seems like you, you still felt more relief. It was definitely relief. I didn't cry. Wow. I felt. I literally felt like, yeah, this is freedom. This is, this is great. Now, well, there's some fears of course, because now I have to provide for these children and make all this work, but nothing felt better than, like, it's nothing better than leaving your house and knowing when you come home like you are gonna have. There's nothing better than that. Feeling like I'm gonna walk in this door and I'm not gonna see the house in chaos. I'm not gonna see, you know, bottles of alcohol in the trash. I'm not gonna have to be yelled at. I'm not gonna have to have a conversation about do you have money for the rent? I'm not gonna have. To do any of those things. You know what I mean? And so the honest to God truth was I'd rather struggle alone than to deal with this. Wow. And that's what I, that's what I live by. I'm curious your perspective on this. I've heard of the stories of women being married to men in the military, and it sounds like a lot of the similar. do you see that pattern? Oh yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I'm, I Why? Just everything they go through working in the military, I would imagine so. But for him, I don't think that his issues were military related. Excuse me. I think those issues came long before the military. Yeah. The military just exasperated it. Yeah. Well, yeah, for sure. Obviously you, you're an expert in psychology and relationship and mental health. So when someone is abusive and controlling and narcissistic and ends up cheating, what is, what's, what's so deep within that it's causing them to do that? from, I'll go with the personal experience and then professional. So personally, I think when people are, You know, tend to grow up and be, you know, abusive and whatever have you, you, you would think, well, I'll say from his experience, he was not abused. He actually came from what I perceived as a really good family. Yeah. Two parents loving God fairing. think something was just, he was at some point a favorite. And I know that sounds weird. Okay. But he was, Had his way a lot, is the best way I could describe it. How does that affect a person? Well, you're not used to hearing no, right? You're not used to hearing any pushback, like, how dare you say no? How dare you not tell me what to do? I've been getting my way all my life. No compromise. No compromise at all. Know what I mean? No, no idea. Or care for anyone else's feelings. Mm-hmm. or situations. Exactly. And that's part of, you know, being a narcissist or having a narcissistic traits, right? Right. It's like you care less. There's no empathy for anybody else. It's all about me. The world revolves around me. And then, and then that also speaks to the professional point of view. You know, in terms of how we develop these traits is. The childhood experiences and those relationships that we have with our first loves, which is our caregivers, you know, like yeah. How they treated us you know, growing up, whether it's issues with abandonment or maybe they were too involved and enmeshed in the lives. Yes. You know what I mean? And, and not giving that child enough opportunity to, to learn and grow and to maybe have some. Some experiences that would help to create a, a kinder human. But yeah, it, it's really those rooted childhood experiences that we take those experiences into our adult relationships and then it could go either way. Do you have any contact with him at all? Mm-hmm. Oh, okay. Yeah. So he is still in your kids' lives and everything. Yeah. My. We, I would say every couple of months I would have like a conver, not a full on conversation, like, Hey, how are you? Um, Because at the end of the day that that's my children's father. Yeah. And I've always wanted my children to, you know, love their. Because that's their father, you know, maybe he has flawed characteristics, but we all do. Yeah. So, you know, still, still love your father. But yeah, you know, I'm remarried now. We, like I said, we say hi to each other. I have no ill feelings towards him whatsoever. I had shared with someone I think about maybe last year or the year before. I'm also a grandmother, so my eldest daughter has a son, which is crazy. You do not look like you could be a grandmother. My God, I'm, and so she had his birthday party, and of course she's gonna invite her father, you know, and so, She lived in a really small apartment at the time, and she invited his parents and there wasn't a lot of room to sit. Yeah, yeah. And so my ex-husband and my current husband were sitting on the same couch, and so I was like, well, this is funny. Yeah. So what did I do? I went and sat right between them and I was like, Ain't this funny. And I put my arms around the both of them. I was like, how you doing? How you doing? You know what I mean? Oh my God. And it was just like, I don't have any ill feelings. Like I, I would've preferred not to have those experiences. Yeah. However, those experiences. Really compelled me to do some things in my life. Which one of'em was going to the, the Sheriff's Academy. Yeah. You know what I mean? So I'm grateful because there's some really good things that turned out of that horrible relationship. One again, my two amazing, I have two daughters with him and then a son with my current husband. I have two beautiful daughters. Yeah. You know what I mean? So I learned a lot. I learned a lot about myself. I learned how to, to fight, and I don't mean physically, but I learned how to. Yeah. so many women and men go through a similar experience as you with being in an abusive relationship, and it seems like you, you had the confidence and the courage to get the hello as you told the story where you said, when I come back, you better be gone. So many people don't have that though, and they stay. because of the fear of what's, what happens afterwards seems crazier than what's happening today. Yeah. What advice do you have for those people that are just staying and not having the courage to make a change? when you're in it you feel like you're doing everything to survive. And we all know too, like statistically it shows that when people leave those relationships, that's like a really crucial point where the perpetrator has come back and taken these individuals lives, right? I would say that the day will come when you're, you two will get the strength and it may seem bleak now, and you may feel. There's no way that I'm going to figure this out, but you just get tired. You just get tired, and you just want. Something better for yourself. Maybe if you have children involved, you want something better for them. And it's almost like a light switch. It clicks cuz that's exactly what it just clicked. There was no major discussion. I didn't even have a plan when I asked them to leave. Like I didn't go through my finances like this is what I need to bring in. You know what I mean? Or this is what I need to do. It was. I was tired. Yeah. And I was sick and tired of being tired and yeah, I think at, at, at some point we all get there but you know, even if you don't have it in you to get that fight. I would say definitely start having those conversations and, and get some support. You know, I mean, this wasn't that long ago that I experiences. Experiences, you know, what I went through, but there's a lot of resources out there, you know what I mean? There's a lot of good programs out there for people, men and women who are experiencing domestic violence. Intimate partner violence. I mean, Google is a thing. Get on there and ask for, for help. There's all sorts of hotlines, there's all sorts of places you can go where you're kind of like in hiding if the relationship has come to that. But there's help. So talk to somebody. I love what you said when you said it was a difficult and challenging relationship. However, you said You refused to let it dictate your life. Mm-hmm. and you see it as a teachable moment and a story of survival, which I thought was extremely beautiful. Some people can use those moments in their life to dictate their entire life and. Thought to yourself, hell no. This is just one stepping stone and I see so much more ahead. Right. Wow. I mean, thank you. You, you have daughters like Yeah. I'm sure they've learned a lot from you watching you go through this and seeing how you've changed your life around for them and for yourself. I hope so. I hope so. Would say because I've always, I, I always instilled in, in my kids that. You know, life is difficult and you know, when they're young, they're like, oh, it's not fair, and it ain't, it really isn't fair. But that doesn't mean you, you just gotta lay down and just let it trample all over you. Yeah. Like, you really need to get up and do something because you can change your circumstances, you know what I mean? You just put some effort into it. It really starts here. You know what I mean? If I could change this, I mean, anything is possible, not impossible. Every, anything is possible if I just change my mindset. But, you know, yeah, just go out there and, and do it. And I know it sounds easier said than done, but I don't know that like my story's any different than anybody else's. I just know that was something I had to do. Yeah. And you did it, which is phenomenal. Thank. Last couple questions for you. The first one being we're going into a brand new year and mm-hmm. is there anything top of mind that you want to leave within 2022 and something that you really wanna pull into your life in 2023? That's a good question. What I would like to leave in 22 is these 17 pounds that I gained. Oh my God would, no, just kidding. No serious. Um, But no, I think, I think because there's so much going on in our world, like you literally cannot turn on a TV without some, Tragic story. You know, couple days ago, you know, with Twitch taking in his life. You know, like everybody was like, what's going on? I think if I could leave anything in 2022 is just like people to know that they're not alone. Hmm. You know what I mean? And bringing to 2023, these. Needed transparent conversations about whatever challenges you are facing, whatever's troubling you, and for you to know that there's someone out there who cares and that there's someone out there that you can lean on. It just takes a phone call. Hmm. Yeah, it's. Sometimes it's hard to believe. Sometimes it's so obvious. Mm-hmm. some days, but when you're in the deep trenches of feeling that loneliness and no one likes you and everything's falling apart. Yeah. It's so easy to forget all of the good in your life. right? It is, it is. Yeah. But you know, you gotta start with gratitude. I always tell my clients whether it's through the relationship or um, my mental health clients be gracious. You know what I mean? You can, no matter what is going on in your life, you could find three things to be grateful for. You know what I mean? And even if it's. I woke up this morning. Well, there you go. That's a new start. You know what I mean? That gives you an opportunity to do something else with your life or start making small changes to, to create, you know, habits, better habits or whatever. You know what I mean? You could find three things to be grateful for, and if you could do that, you know, every day, that also helps to change the mindset and allow you to become, you know, a little more positive, and anxiety and depression will reduce, you know what I mean? So just, just be gracious. Mm-hmm. Like I said, easier said than done sometimes, but it's as simple as that. Yeah. Yeah. It's, yeah, it is. You know, like I said, we're all going through some things and you know, the other day I was just like driving down the street and in LA there's a lot of homeless encampments. Yeah. LA But I'm looking at them and I'm like, these people. are living on the street. And night at right now is about 30 to 40 degrees. You know, they are living under tents. probably couldn't tell you the last time they had a really good meal or shower. Yeah. But they were sitting there laughing and smiling like they don't have a cure in the world. And I was just, They too found something to be grateful for. Yeah. You know what I mean? So, you know, I'm sure there's other situations where people are doing much worse than that, but I'm just saying like you could find something to be grateful for. I agree. Last, but not least, anyone listening today that wants to connect with you further or maybe work with you in some way, how do they do that? So, one or two ways. You can definitely email me at dr. Billows cultivating your life.com. And so that's d r period. B as in boy, I L L O U, P as in Paul, S as in Sam, at cultivating your life.com. You could go to my website, which is cultivating your life.com. Amazing. Loretta, thank you so much for starting my day like this with me. I never do podcasts first thing in the morning and I kind of like that we did this time cuz it's really set the tone for my day a lot. Yeah. Oh, I love it. And thank you. I'm so glad we were able to record before I go on holidays. Cause I think these are conversations that really need to be had at the beginning of a brand new year as a nice reminder to everyone that whatever your circumstances are today, you're the one that's gonna have the power to change those circumstances. And I think your personal story depicts that perfectly. So thank you so much for. Thank you for having me and enjoy your holidays with your family and safe travels. Thank you. You're welcome.

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