How To Go From Betrayal and Hating Men to Finding Epic Love Again with Natalia Murua Artwork

Ebb and Glow

Welcome to Ebb and Glow — the podcast that shows you how everyday people are taking on life’s ups and downs and coming out better than before. Your host, Jenelle Tremblett, will be with you weekly and with special guests, to chat about everything from careers, relationships, mindset, and everything in between. Are you tired of only seeing the highlight reel? Me too. This podcast will instead be peeking behind the curtain to reveal all the steps, pep talks, and glasses of wine that must happen before we become strong, confident, and resilient.

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Ebb and Glow

How To Go From Betrayal and Hating Men to Finding Epic Love Again with Natalia Murua

February 21, 2023 • Jenelle Tremblett • Episode 122

#122: Natalia shares how she dealt with infidelity in her marriage and went through a divorce, to being extremely cynical about men and resigned about love, to happily married again.

Today, Natalia Murua is a love coach, specializing in the best of Eastern and Western approaches to love, dating and relationships. She helps women all over the globe to become competent and confident in dating and relationships.

Natalia's Ebbs

Divorce
Infidelity
Betrayal
Lack of loyalty in her marriage
Failed relationships
Losing hope on love

Natalia's Glows

Regained her dignity and freedom
Reinvented herself
Free of anger, fear, and resentment
Tons of personal development
Becoming a relationship coach for many women around the world

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Welcome to the ebb and glow podcast. I'm your host, Janelle Tremlett. And I'm a firm believer that even when life doesn't go as planned, it is taking you exactly where you're meant to be on this podcast. I'm here to help you finally release control of what you think you want and begin to just trust in the ebbs and flows of life. Each week, I will show you how to build that positive mindset radiate with self confidence and cultivate an unshakeable resilience. Let me prove to you that even when life ebb. You will glow. Hello everyone. And welcome to episode 1 22 of the ebb and glow podcast. Today's episode is with a fantastic guest Natalia marula. Who is here to talk to us about finding epic love, tell me that doesn't catch your attention. Anyone listening today, whether you're single in a relationship through a recent breakup, happily married, whatever your relationship status is, you will gain so much value out of today's episode. To give you some insight into who my guest is. So then you can really understand that. When Italia teaches about finding epic love, she's been through the ringer herself, as she said, So Natalia is a love coach who specializes in the best of Eastern and Western approaches to love dating and relationships. She helps women all over the globe to become competent and confident in dating and relationships. So if you're single and looking for your forever husband or partner or married and want to bring the intimacy and fun back into your relationship, she is the one to call. Ultimately Natalia's life mission is to bring the imitation to love to our community. When I asked Natalia. Tell me about some of the stuff that's happened in your life and kind of what makes you an epic love coach and kind of the difficulties you've had in your past. Natalia told me that she has been through the ringer. She went from being betrayed and cheated on and going through a divorce to being very cynical about men, which I'm sure you don't blame her. To then finding love again and being happily married. And a lot of our conversation at the beginning is asking her, like, how do you go from hating men to finding love and getting into that feminine energy again, because I'm sure if you're listening now that you've been through those ebbs and flows in your life where. you get cheated on you, go through a bad breakup and you find it hard to understand, like, is there any good men out there at all? It's easy to fall into that trap of thinking. When I asked. Natalia kind of what she did. we chatted a little bit, but basically Natalia went on a deep personal development dive because she realized that in all of her relationships and all the failed relationships, especially The common denominator was hurt. So she got rid of everything that was weighing her down emotionally, spiritually, and energetically. And essentially created a new version of her more suited to be successful in love and relationships. Throughout our conversation. We talked about a lot, but I really loved the part of the episode when Italia really drove home. That when you want something, you have to really want it. When she moved to the United States, she didn't just move to the United States and then hang out with a bunch of Latin American people. She solely, only hung out with American people to really dive into the culture. As you said, it's the same of relationships. So many people are saying, I want a relationship. I want to fall in love, but do you. You really want it? Are you doing anything to actually get that for yourself? And from her experience, talking to people, she said, most people don't actually want it. They just say they want it because if you really wanted it. You would move mountains to make that happen for you? Today's episode. I'm sure you're hearing it. My voice is going to be a good one. I absolutely love any time talking about love to anyone, because I think. Getting into a really good Headspace as especially within yourself in order to be able to have a successful relationship. There's only good that can come out of it. So I really hope you love today's episode. And if you do make sure to share it with a friend, because if you're gaining value from it, someone else will too. Okay, wherever you are today, have a fantastic day and enjoy the episode. Natalia, thanks so much for being on the podcast. Hello. Thank you for having me, Chanel. I'm super pumped because I found out about you through our mutual friend and podcaster Hailey, and I loved your episode with her. And I find I love chatting about that intersection of business relationships and how it all affects us. So I always say my two favorite things to talk about ever is business slash money and love. So we got lots to talk about, obvious. Right. I love, love and I can see you love, love too, I do, but I mean I'm gonna say a lot of limiting beliefs on this podcast. Just the nature of the time of my life I'm in right now. I am in the time of my life right now that I've put a pause on dating and you can laugh and smile because even my friends like laugh as well. They're like, you can't just put like a timeline on this or put a pause on things. Like things have to happen naturally. And I feel like I am very focused on my career, at least for the next few months, where I'm definitely open to meeting people. Like I meet people all day long. Just the nature of my job and the nature. I'm a social person, but I've had people ask me out recently and I just stayed at right away. I just said, I'm not open to dating right now. Am I shooting myself in the. No you're not. Let me ask you a question. Were you attracted to those guys? No. I wasn't then. We have so never. That was your answer, Well, it was a nice, no, to be able to say like, well, I'm not even dating now anyways. Yes. Like a nice way of saying Yeah, no, thanks. Those guys. You would have said yes. I, I know, I know. That's what my friends say. Even like my family too. They're like, oh, you're so career focused, but the moment you're interested in someone, you'll push all that aside. I'm like, you might be right on that because like I said, when I was in Costa Rica, I met a lot of guys that I was very interested in, but it was also like I was also in vacation Janelle mode. So I know it's not your expertise, but when it comes to feminine masculine energy, I find when I'm in vacation mode, I'm full feminine energy. Mm-hmm. But when I'm in living in Toronto working mode, I tend to default to masculine. So, So what do you think it makes a difference? In terms of what energy you lean on when you are on a vacation and when you are at home. What makes a difference? What can you notice? I find um, when I'm on vacation, I'm more open. I'm more open to like meeting people and kind of going with the flow a bit. When I am in work mode, it, my schedule is pretty packed. Okay. And there's not even really an opening unless, unless it's my dream person, I'm not really allowing kind of any openings for anyone. Okay. So it's a matter of time. Yeah. You, you don't really have time when you are, so it's not a matter of energy, it's a matter of time. When we are at work, it's, it's good to be in our masculine energy, actually to make things move forward in work. Mm-hmm. we need to be in our masculine energy. The masculine energy is the energy that is the external. Yeah. It's all about building, about creating, about reaching goals. It's linear. So one follows two, two follows. Three, it's all about creating and building and doing. Mm-hmm. So for our work, for our job, we need to be in that masculine energy. Mm-hmm. if we are not. We are not gonna be able to get any traction. Yeah. We all willynilly and Okay. I feel like doing, I don't feel like doing it or waiting, waiting. That's a big one. You know? Oh, I'm gonna sit here and have all my, you know, visualizations and meditations and goals, but I'm gonna wait. Yeah. Business is not gonna happen like that. It's not gonna happen like that. listening to your other podcast interviews I learned that you did Landmark 20 odd years ago. No kidding. Where did I say that? Yes, you did. I've done Landmark before, so I'm very familiar. Lovely. Okay. We're friends forever. Yeah. you, it's like, it's like, a minor cult, but like I know what you've learned and, and it makes sense, kind of the path you've gone down because I know what is involved in those courses, you know, and, and I know how. Oh my god, I have good funds. You know, that's so great that you bring it up because in this 21 years that I have been living in States, landmark was my first self-development company that I did. First of many. Yeah. Yeah. I done tons of work, tons of retreats. Uh, you know, that was kinda your first like, taste of it. There is nothing like landmark to me. What do you think like 21 years later, like what are some of the themes and messages that have stuck with you? I know, like I did mine in 2018. I didn't do the whole coursework. I think I did the first two courses. But there are still some things that I take in my self-development world that is messages from landmark. So any kind of themes or like learnings that still in this day stick with you. A lot of things. Yeah. I love that. How much I love it and how much I. If I know somebody has a landmark, I know. It's an extraordinary human being. Yeah, I know, I know it. So there were a few things, a lot of things, but I would say the main thing to me it was integrity. Hmm. To me it's in Kennedy, you know, honoring your world Taking a stand for yourself, that who you are is your world. Mm-hmm. to me. Yeah. It, it's just, it's a daily thing. it never went away. It's like, you know, if I'm say I'm gonna be there, I'll be there. Usually early. If I say I'm gonna do something, I'll do it. And if I cannot do it, because, come on, I'm just human. Mm-hmm. I uh, reschedule. Exactly. Exactly. I renegotiate and I just love that. Mm-hmm. And so that was the main, main, main thing for me. The, the thing that I I is still embedded me every day. Mm-hmm. I did have integrity before, I will say but not at the level that, yeah, it's my, my work, what I say. It's who I am, My identity is completely attached to that, and I really, really like that. What about you? That one, that's one of the bigger ones. And for me it's, and I'm still working on this, like chronic lateness, like I'm bad for, but one thing that I learned in land markets, like, like you said, you're human, things are gonna happen, but as long as you're communicating that like both parties will be fine. And I find like nowadays, one of my biggest triggers in friendships, family, like relationships in general is lack of communication. I'm okay with things going wrong or you're not happy with something, but like, can you let me know that? And it's not because I get all this anxiety afterwards, it's more like, I don't like the, the surprises of like, wait, wait, what? Like why didn't you just like say that to me? Or like, it's fine if you're gonna be two hours later, you're, or it's fine. You, we, you can't hang out or you wanna rain check. But like, just say that. And I find like I have such a low tolerance for it since then. Yes, yes. But the other big one, that's the main one that sticks with me that really helped in my relationships. Communication is the phrase, the story I'm telling myself is Right. And that has helped so many problems and like miscommunication in my life. Especially, especially in romantic relationships because, I mean in romantic relationships, cuz that's what we're here to talk about. You, you run stories in your head all the time. Oh, he took five hours to text me back. I don't know if it's just a woman thing, but like as women we go straight to Instagram, see if his follower count went up, assume he's cheating and assume he hates us. And it's like maybe he's just working all day. Yeah. And like we spiral. Where does that come from? Is it insecurities? Is it self worth? It's just the way we are wired as humans. It's the way our brain works. So the way our brain works is we get bombarded every second with about 2000 beats of information. Yeah. And process. I think it's 200 or something like that. So a very, very, we get bombarded with a ton of information every second, and we can only process a tiny, tiny bit of that information. Mm. Otherwise our brain gets fried. Yeah. So the way our brain, biologically and evolutionary develop, you know, fix that problem so our brains don't get fried like a computer. Mm-hmm. We have the event happening. You know, he didn't text me as soon as I wanted him to text me. Yeah. That is the event is meaningless. Mm-hmm. the event doesn't have absolutely any meaning. We give meaning to the events. Mm. So the event is, he didn't text me as fast as I feel comfortable with him texting me. That's happening here. It comes to our brain and our brain because that's a lot of information. It deletes information. So some parts get deleted, some other parts, they, it generalizes it, it puts it together with parts of the past because our body can only carry our past. It cannot carry the future. Mm-hmm. So it does all that thing, it's like a soup. It optimizes as much as it can, so we can absorb some of the information and come up with an idea. Mm-hmm. And that comes out in the form of a thought. Yes, the thought, if it's a posi, the thought creates an emotion. And if it's a positive thought, we'll create a positive emotion. And if it's a negative thought, we'll create a negative emotion. So, for example, if he didn't text us as fast as we want it, the brain will delete generalized, come up with a meaning, even if it's, you know, whatever. And the thought could be, oh, he's cheating. Negative. The emotion will be betrayed. And the emotion will create emotion, which is an action motion, emotion motion. The, the emotion will create an action, and the action will be, I'm gonna text him and tell him what I think of him and send him to hell and tell him I wanna, yeah. And that creates another event. And it's a, it's a cycle. Or if the thought is, oh, he must be busy. I'm gonna go and, and take a nap, or I'm gonna go take a walk. I'm gonna call my friend. I'm gonna finish this walk, whatever, a k a, I'm gonna do something for myself. Yeah. The emotion is gonna be okay. I'm cool, you know, I feel chill. Mm-hmm. the action will be, I'm, you know, I'm gonna go and mind my own business. He's gonna call me when he gets time, when he has time. And then the another action is gonna be like, he's gonna text me and we are gonna go out again and it's gonna go upward. So we have, we can go upwards, spiral, or we can go down horse spiral The mechanism, per se, of how it happens. Mm-hmm. doesn't have anything to do with who we are as human beings. It doesn't have anything to do with how confident or not confident, how traumatized we are, or how. You know, whatever. It's, it's the way it works. Now, the interesting process is what happens here? Mm. When we believe generalized put things together there, we can do something. Because if we don't like the thoughts we are having a k a, the meaning we give to the event, we can change that at this level. Mm-hmm. And when we do it is we reprogram our brain. Actually there is a super famous guy, Joe. Yes. Very familiar. Yeah. Yeah. So the way the, the brain comes up with thoughts and all that is through synapses. The, the neurons connect to electric synapses. Every thought we have creates a pathway. Mm-hmm. And we have been thinking for, we are, let's say we are 30 years old and we have been thinking for 15 years now, then men are cheaters, eh, that's where we go. That pathway. Mens are cheaters is like a highway, and it's going fast. It's going fast, and we're always finding proof points, right. We're looking for, we're looking for them ourselves. Rights. That's the other thing that we want to be right. We don't know wanna be wrong, no human beings, and we'll go out of our way to be, right. Mm-hmm. So, but we do, when we reprogram our brain, we start to add concepts and beliefs and ways of being that create new neuronal pathways. Mm. So little by little, when you think, oh, he must be cheating, you go, is that true? Hmm. Can I really confirm right now that he's cheating the answer? 99% of the time is now. Yeah. And you go like, okay, so take a deep breath in. You know, you can self-regulate your nervous system. Mm-hmm. make sure you're safe. Look around. I'm safe. Yeah. Am safe. Because your, our reptilian brain is going crazy. So take a deep breath. Just You are safe. You are good. What else could this mean? Mm. And then you, and that's, we got, we got no thoughts for that we default to the worst case scenario and default to what we, what we make up in our heads most times. Right. Unless you have done the work. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The work, if you do the work, the kind of work I offer, the kind of work landmark offers. Yeah. Yeah. You are aware. Mm-hmm. So you are not blindsided anymore. No. Not something that you don't know. That you don't know. It's not like your unconscious mind ruling your life all the time. You, you bring it to the, surface and then you have a choice to. and then I'm not saying it's simple, it's easy, but it's pretty simple, you know? Mm-hmm. choose and that's how I changed my situation. Yeah. Well, I was gonna say, like, I feel knowing your backstory, like you went through divorce, you caught him cheating on you, a lot of betrayal, a lot of lack of loyalty. And I know like loyalty is very important to you and it's, yeah. That would obviously lead someone into a pattern of, I hate men, right, of course. And basically lack of trust. Like you went through all of those paths, obviously I did. And when I found my ex-husband in my house with another woman, in all honesty, I made it mean that it was a blessing. Ah. See, right away. Because you know how most people in that situation would, would make meaning out of that I'm wrong. Yeah. I'm not beautiful. I'm not doing enough. It becomes a self-worth thing. Yes. We make it about ourselves. Yeah. I mean there, there was, I don't know, relationships are between two people, but that particular situation, Amanda cannot stay faithful. It doesn't have anything to do with us. Try that on for size. Hey, that the people listening right now, that's, that's a new neural pathway. It doesn't have anything to do with us. Amanda cannot be faithful. He then I came to find out. I didn't, when I, when I found out this, and I made it mean that it was a gift and that it was my way out to build a new, better life. Mm-hmm. I didn't know his past, how he had cheated with another woman so he has his own pattern. I was actually the one he cheated with to the X. Oh, I did. I had no idea. Had no idea. But then, you know, you start to associate and you are like, oh, so I was the, the one, I was the other woman first. Right, right. It, it tends to happen that way sometimes because very seldomly man, that cheats is not gonna cheat. I know that's one of my, my big, I don't have a lot of no-nos in my way of work in my coaching program, but I have a few, and one is, and men that cannot be, and this is not from my own experience mm-hmm. it's just what I have learned through years. Mm-hmm. years of doing this and, and, and experiences other women and all that. A men that cannot be stay faithful, we have to stay away from them. Mm-hmm. a man is an addict that is an addict to drugs, alcohol, gambling, pornography. We have to stay away from them. Mm-hmm. I'm not saying a Amanda that is an alcoholic and he put himself through a recovery program and he's saw that's a different story. Those men are, are usually great. Yeah. Then the personal development work that alcoholics and, no, they have the 12 step problem. Mm-hmm. it's phenomenal. Yeah. So I guess that answers my question. If someone has cheated a bunch in the past and tends to get into that pattern, no matter what relationship they're in, do you think they can change? I think they can. Yeah. I think every, I truly believe it. Everybody can. It's just they have to do the work. It's not something that if they are cheating and they come to us and say, oh, I'm gonna change I'm, and just leave it at that. Yeah, no. Okay. You can say, okay, you're gonna change. Great. What are you gonna do? Show me the steps you're gonna take and I'm gonna give you time. Yeah. You know, I'm gonna move to another place. Mm-hmm. I was talking with a client the other day and she, she's having a, a, a, a very white situation with her husband. Mm-hmm. they're living under the same house, under the same roof. They're separated. you know, they're, they have been separated for three years, pretty much. Wow. And she's a doctor, a medical doctor, so she's making good money. It's not that she's, so why is she staying? Because she wants the house. She wants to stay in the house. That's what she say, buy him out. Or, or she can move out. Yeah. Well, no, I can't move out because I don't have enough money. That's what she was saying. I don't have enough money and I have the two kids and all that. And I said, when I found my ex with another woman, I moved out within the hour and yes, I survived on rice and beans for two years. Yeah. Because to pay rent on my own and all that. But this is the only life we have. Yeah. This is not a test. This is not something that we get to, that's what I say all the time. As we know, this is it. I mean, I don't know. Maybe there is some, but why we, but let's operate like this is it for now. Yeah. So yes. Yes. I know it's hard. I know. You know, it's not ideal, but I would rather I will do it again. Yeah. Because I got my dignity, I got my freedom and, and, you know, and I got to reinvent myself and my life. Mm-hmm. in a way that, you know, that, that I, I was free of anger. I was fear. Yeah. Free of resentment. those are things that we can choose. Those are the only things we can choose. Actually. It's what we do with our mind and our heart. Mm-hmm. and our body. The rest, what he does, we can't. It's just can't. So if he comes and says, yes, honey, I love you. I'm sorry. I really see that I hurt you and I hate myself for that, but he doesn't have to hate himself for that. But you know, I'm gonna go to therapy. Mm-hmm. once a week, I'm gonna go do this, I'm gonna do that and you know, and if you wanna move out, move out. And I will wait, you know, and I will win you again. I will show you. Great, great. Any other situation? It's just, it's not gonna change. No, not gonna change because it's too easy for him. Mm-hmm. I'm curious, you mentioned when you found your husband cheating on you, you saw it as a blessing. were you maybe before that, like, wanting a different life, wanting something new? The relationship went sour. Yeah. And, uh, so he wasn't really treating me as I deserved and as I expected mm-hmm. So, up until the time we, when we were dating, Before we got married, everything was awesome. Like of course, how awesome was Fanta? Phenomenal. Like, yep. Super romantic fun, you know, traveling all the fun things and, but once we got married everything changed dramatically for the worst. Wow. So that was something that I wasn't really happy with. Mm. Cause the, the men I had met and I had fallen in love with became you know, another person that he wasn't very happy. He wasn't very happy with me and all that. So, yes, there was that. when that happened, I'm sure you thought to yourself, haha, I have a reason to get out of this. Right, right. Good. Instead of making it a fight over nothing with no proof. Right. No pushback. Me, it was crystal clear. It's never or never. But how do you go from feeling that betrayed and losing trust in relationships to finding healthy and epic love again? Yes. It was an interesting time. Yeah. Where you know, at that point, I, I just got very real at that. Up until that point my life had been all about peak performance, high performance, how to be my best self, how to be aligned with my highest self at all levels. I have always been an entrepreneur, very independent, moving to different countries, learning different languages. I, I have always been very like a go-getter and Yeah, yeah, yeah. Never like could, and that was my life. That was what my life was about, but not about relationships. So when that happened, I couldn't just, I couldn't not see anymore what was going on with my relationships. Mm-hmm. by that point, I had been in relationships for over a decade and they had all failed. I was dating guys that, they were choosing me, you know, if I like the guy, I will just scrambled and get super like insecure and not go after him. So I would pretty much date guys that were interested in me. Mm. Uh, They were great guys, amazing guys and all that. But I, there was never that, you know, attraction. those guys you're talking about, if you wrote down like the guy that you actually wanted to be with, it was not those people. No, no. They were safe. Yeah. I, I, I resonate. Yes. Great guys, but not for me. Very safe because I didn't have anything to lose because I wasn't a hundred percent in So, so yeah. So what happened is, I, I just, I remember I will never forget, I am sitting in my car and I am like, just kind of like in shock and thinking, you know, okay, Natalia, what is the common denominator in all these failed relationships that you have had? And the common denominator was loud and bright and, you know, it was yelling at me. It's you, it was me. That was the common denomin. And that's very landmark as well. Yes. And um, so I said, okay, so I'm gonna do the work on my own relationships. I'm gonna get my relationship straight. Mm-hmm. and I went in it full force as I am, you know, like a hundred percent, a thousand percent. So, yes, and I, at that time, I was friends with some women and we started a group of that we were coaching women. Mm-hmm. So at the same time that I was doing the work on myself, I started to help other single women with their dating and relationships. So I did that. How old were you at this time? And how old are you when you're going through that divorce? Everything, all that happened When, about when I was about 32. Between 32 and 35. The pivotal time of your life. Right, right. It's a time where you know, you are as a woman, if you haven't had kids, that's a time to have kids and you know, so now I am so happy when most of the women I work with are in their twenties. And that's actually the kind of women I like to work with the most. Because I know that you, that we have a window for certain things. As women, we do, we have a, a very specific window. That doesn't mean that we cannot adopt and all that, but if you wanna have your own kids, you very have your act together by age 30. I know. You know, no, no pressure on women at all. But yeah, that is what we deal with and what we think about all the time. Right. Although now technology, you know, not now. For a while now technology has come a long way. You can freeze your eggs and all that, but that's not available to every woman. That's exciting. No, it's expensive. I have those conversations with uh, girlfriends of mine and yeah, one of the girls, she's a bit younger than me, but she's planning on freezing her eggs just because she's gonna go do more schooling and her career. And thankfully she's in a position to afford it, but like, I wouldn't be spending money on that. Well, good for her. I I, I have had friends and friends, he's young. She's not even 27 yet. Yes. Well, but she's in a financial position to be able to do so, so she's saying why not? Yeah, talking her. Absolutely. I completely supported. It's just, it not for everybody. I mean's that's, even if I did have the money, I don't think I'd invested there. Like I don't think I'd spend the money there. Yeah. Like I'm waiting. I'm willing to just see how life plays itself out, and if it's too late and I can't have kids, then I guess that's it. That's the situation. Yes. Well, you know, hopefully. You, you'll, you'll figure it out. I know You will figure it out. I'm not worried. Not worried. Can call me. I'll help you Yeah. I'm not worried. It'll all figure itself out. Yeah. I'm curious though, when all these women, you say you probably work with most women in their twenties, thirties. Mm-hmm. what's happening in their mind or in their situation that they finally say, enough is enough. I'm Going to chat with Natalia. what's their breaking point before they come to you? Uh, It's just mostly the continuous going out and dating and not meeting, you know, high quality men. Ah, they don't have a problem meeting men and attracting men, but it's. Meeting that special man where they can have something else and just, you know, sex and a house, and they want to have connection. They want to have a fulfilling relationship. Intimacy, good conversations, you know, shared interests. It's not only at the, at the survival level where, you know, back in the day that was enough. they have higher needs, more spiritual needs. They, they want to have a great, great relationship seen and heard and so, and it's hard for them to find somebody like that. So that's when they come to me. Then there is another group of women that are recovering from a breakup or they are in a bad relationship Yeah. And they get out and they need help with that. Yeah. So those are, a lot of people stay in those relationships because they don't have this big, big reason to get out, like someone cheating on someone or something, but they're just like very stagnant and they don't know how to break up with someone that really hasn't done anything wrong. Right. I think that's harder than say your situation where you're coming home and they're way harder. Exactly. My fault. You're breaking someone's heart that didn't actually do anything wrong. Yes. Well, mediocracy is the worst. I know. Worst. So some people would rather that than change in confrontation and that's, that's all right. Mm-hmm. honest with you, at this point in my life, and I have always thought a little bit like this, but we are all necessary, you know, and we are all fulfilling a, a mission in this life, and if they want to stay in that place and. You know, it's all right. It's, it's their journey. It's their path. And not everybody has to, to be in an amazing relationship. Mm-hmm. not everybody really wants it. Really wants it. Most women want to be in a great relationship. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah. But it's not enough. Most people want to have a million dollars. Is that enough to have a million dollars? Most people want to live enough in a place like the United States. Is that enough? No. You have to really, really want it now. You have to be committed. When I came to the United States, when I decided to make that mold, I didn't just wanted it. It wasn't just something like, oh, you know, maybe. Yeah. So maybe, yeah, it would be nice. It would be nice. You wanted it. I wanted it. I came here, I got English books on the first two days I was here, I started working with Americans right away. Mm-hmm. I didn't have an a Latin friend for the first five years because I shot one. And you chose that? Yes, of course. Because you, you would default back in just speaking Spanish and, and just, yeah. If I wanted, I moved to South Florida, I could have had an Aian family because over there. Yeah. And yeah, you're really not like living the life that you dreamed of. Right. So I said no, and it was hard. Of course, of course. It was hard. And uh, you know, and I had to leave everything and it was hard. But it is the same thing with relationships, you know? Mm-hmm. The fact that you. There is a lot of, it'll be nice, and they don't even know that they are in that spectrum. Yeah. To a great relationship, you have to want it, you have to be committed to it. It's work. It's, it's fun work, but it's work. You need to make it a priority. You have to really, keep working on your inner life. You need to communicate at a deep level. You need to know how to communicate at a deep level. Mm-hmm. so women like me I had this desire and this year inside of me up until, you know, I started doing the work, but I didn't even know how it looked like. Mm. Because I have never had it or had a, a model for. So, you know, you can, you can have an idea of what you want, but if you don't have a picture of it and you have never done it before, you have never had it before, how do you get there? And they don't teach this stuff in schools. They don't, of course not. They don't. In movies. They, they don't, I mean, most romantic movies are are horrible. They're horrible. Yeah. They're movies are super, super messed up. I mean, if you can, if you can watch a movie and still like recognize like this is toxic. I mean that's okay. That's correct. because yes, the problem is that most people don't do that. No, God no. If you are very young and you don't have a good role model and you're a little bit lost and you don't know what to love about, it's about like relationships are about, you see that and there is a, there is a possibility that you could believe that that is all right. Yeah. Being treated as a present, it's all right. So many women use their body to get to and that doesn't walk. Mm-hmm. what doesn't work. So do you have any client success stories that come to mind that make you really happy and proud of your work? Yes. Yeah. All of them. Yeah, of course. Any that really stand out Uh, There was this lady, she was you know, she wanted to, she was single and currently paid, and she wanted to get married and she was attracted to guys that were players. That was her thing. Why? Well, I mean, it's complex. I don't wanna water it down, but I can give you one reason why we do that. But it's not that simple. It's a lot of, yeah. What is it, what's the main like, simplified reason? The reason is that um, when we are dating a guy that is not, not reliable. it triggers this sense of excitement inside of us that we confuse with attraction. Ah. So that's why when the guy is, he doesn't commit. He comes in and out, he doesn't show up and all that. It creates this. This sense of a aliveness of excitement. we get cooked to that adrenaline rush. Mm, not really. The relationship is the, is the, the, the high high. It's a high. Yeah. So when meet good guy, like what happened to her, you know, eventually she came up with her vision of what she wanted for real, what she really wanted. And after a lot of deep work, she came up with what was really making her heart sing. And then we compare, you know, is this guy in, he fits into that vision. No, no. That you want a guy that doesn't call you that, you know. Of course not. Yeah. Yeah. So then she saw that, that there was a guy around her that was a great guy and that was reliable and, but he wasn't as exciting. Yeah. It was amazing. And so they got married and they're still married. So Yeah. A lot of times people confuse healthy with boring. Right, right. And that's why I've done it many times. I, I become bored and I leave and I ended the relationship. Then I think back like, oh, that guy really treated me well. Oh yeah, that probably would've been a good one. Yeah. When I was bored. Right. It's, and then you get caught up in a player and then you realize, oh God, this is too much on my nervous system. Then you go back to boring and like, it's hard to find the middle sometimes. I think. Yes. Well, it's, it's, if you follow my way, the way side uh, you know, I mentor my, yeah, it's not as hard because we come up with a pace in the relationship, so, The pace, really the steps are always the same. Mm-hmm. Now the pace, you know, when you, I, I am a runner, so there is a pace for running. Mm-hmm. If I decide to run a marathon at the pace that is too fast for me at mile six, I'm gonna die. I'm done. But if I know my pace and I know my style, and I know how long it takes me to open up to feel safe, to, to trust somebody and all that, I can go, I have a hundred miles. So, good point. You know, like I follow my own pace. I do not look at, I never look back. I don't look back and I don't follow the pace of somebody else ahead of me because it's my pace. It's not my pace. I do the same thing with relationships. So the steps are all the same now, the pace. You know, the, the pace is you get to know the guy. Of course you need to know him, okay? Mm-hmm. so you know him, you meet him, whatever you date him. Mm-hmm. Then you find evidence. If you can trust him, so you know him, then you trust him. People are like, women are like, oh, if have trust issues, because sometimes we don't follow these steps. We do them backwards. Once we trust him, we rely on him. Mm. See he's reliable. So you, you see, you are, you keep building the relationship. The relationship takes times to develop. It takes times to develop a relationship. And it takes a, at least three months to develop a relationship. It's more like five. Yeah. But it takes about three months for any pattern to show up if they're gonna have a pattern. That's the key. So, and then so you know them, you trust them, you rely on them, and then you become exclusive. Mm. Up until that point you are dating other guys. You are going out with your friends. Thank you for saying this because people become exclusive and I've done this in the past, people, girls are letting themselves become exclusive after like four dates and then wonder why relationships end within two to three months. It's cuz people show their true colors. Right. It's because it's not only that they do it after four days, it's that they don't explain the guy what being exclusive means to them. Mm. So they're, they getting a relationship based on assumptions. Yeah. I assume that this means this and men are in a completely different universe. Yes. Yes. I'm telling. Oh yeah. And, and we can go over that if you want, but, so some days I wonder like, oh my God. Like what is even attractive about men? Sometimes, like some days I wonder truly because they are, they are a different species. Yeah. Different, but they're amazing. Mm-hmm. Yeah, they are. I didn't say what they said in a bad way, I should say. It's different. They're very different. We know that. We need to know that they're different because if we don't know that they're, they're different. We cannot accept them as they are. Mm-hmm. We're gonna make it all about ourselves. Right. So if he comes home and he's not talking to us, we are gonna be like, oh my God, it's about me. I did something wrong. Or I'm not good enough, or I'm too much, or invisible, or, you know, whatever place we go. And actually, you know, some men, most men need a little bit of time to switch gears as much as we do to switch for masculine to feminine. They need to switch gears too if they're coming from work. Yeah, the the man cave is a thing because it's real. Yeah. Some men don't need it. There is a spectrum and some men need it. Definitely need it. Yeah, I agree with that. Everything in between. So anyway, and once we. Exclusive. We are on the same page. Knowing what being exclusive means. It, it may, we may need to say something like, Hey you know, Peter, yes. I would love to be exclusive with you. Now you need to know something about me. When I am exclusive with a man, I expect a little bit more. So I make it a little bit more uh, needy. Yeah, of course. And I may, I will need to see you twice a week and I will need to hear from you calling me every day. Of course, if I'm, if I'm your girlfriend, I wanna hear from you every day. Of course. But women don't say that. Yeah. And they just have these expectations and expect them to know it. That's what's gonna happen. And then it doesn't happen. And well, sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. Mm-hmm. So, and then once we are exclusive, that's when we have. And when we have sex, we also have a conversation. Maybe not the first time, because the first time maybe, you know, you're too hot, you're too passionate, whatever. Yeah, yeah. You know, we do have a conversation also about what sex means to us. Mm-hmm. hey, you know, Peter, when I have sex, I, I really get attached to the manual lab model. It's a, it's a very profound and deep experience for me. It's, it's not just a sport. So I wanted to know that, that, to me, this is something very special, and it's all about communicating those steps so we know that we are on the same page and he knows where you are at. Mm-hmm. because most men are great men. Most men are, they're, they're amazing. They just don't know. But we are thinking, because we don't communicate, of course, not we talk a lot. Yeah, we do we communicate these things. I'm saying right now, we rarely send them. And those are the important things. So we are touched to do or it's all the opposite. We meet the guy and we have sex and we get exclusive and then, you know, we don't even know him. We don't even know him. So, and then for women, and I am, I feel very strong about this. Mm-hmm. there maybe other people that don't feel this strong. I don't know. For me, this is the truth for women. We are biologically. In a, I know we like to think of ourselves as, you know, spiritual beings. Yeah, yeah. As human experience and all that. And I believe in that. Now we are also animals. We're of course, and in a biological way, we are made to mate and reproduce of course. So our bodies are geared towards getting attached to a man, to woman, to be able to have babies. I agree. When you, when you break it down to a biological standpoint, of course. So, mm-hmm. I have heard way too many women telling me, oh no, I don't have my, my boy tall. They call it, you know, I'm good. I'm. I haven't met one woman that is all right to that yet, but hey, prove me wrong. You know, I can, I can do that too. But only with guys. I don't ever plan on dating and I don't ever plan on really caring for and falling for. I can absolutely just, oh my God. How many times can you see them? I'm probably bored of them pretty quickly anyways, but like, I can, I can have sex with someone and it mean nothing to me, but only with guys. I don't actually like, yes. Okay. Because I, there's, there's nothing in me that's gonna become attached to them cuz I don't see them as like a partner and it's probably more like a one. So you are not attracted to them, I dunno what you are doing, having sex with them, but no. I mean, if, like, I just don't plan on like dating them. Okay. And it's probably a one night stand or something like, or like friends that like. We just end up hooking up and, but like, I'm like, I would never like see you as something more than this. So it, like, it doesn't mean anything, you know? Okay. You disagree. If you are saying you know that that's happening to you. I have never met a woman that has been having sex with one guy. I'm not getting involved with him. And if they like him, I, I haven't, I will say it's only like, yeah, if that happens, it's only a couple times and then it's either be attracted to them. Okay. Yeah. So then I'm either like, I'm not even attracted to you. The sex isn't good, so like, I don't need to do this, or Oh, damn, I know I'm gonna catch feelings and I don't think we're gonna get in a relationship, so let's stop. So, you're right. Ultimately. Yes. Yes. I, I mean, any woman that has sex with a guy that she's attracted to it. And that they are seeing him like weekly or something like that. Yeah. You're in a relationship. You're kidding yourself. If you don't think you are, then they, they get upset because he doesn't call him for their birthday or whatever. Yeah. Or wish me happy Valentine's Day. And it's just like, he's not your boyfriend. Right. You're doing everything like a relationship, but you've never had that conversation, so. Right. It's yeah. So, so yes. That's pretty much what we do now. You know, we have sex first and then we expect I know. Exclusivity and the courting afterwards. Yeah. I, I know it's, it's nice to hear from you a more traditional approach because I. We're in 2023. Like even when you and I had the conversation yesterday, like you had to specify, okay, our conversation's gonna be cis women liking cis men, and like we're in a world now where we had to specify that if that's the conversation about to happen. And it's nice to hear sometimes a more traditional approach because if someone's listening right now to any kind of relationship advice, and they're a woman that's looking to date a straight man, a lot of the advice is a little bit muddled out there. Now, you, you, I, I don't think you can blanket it as much as you could before. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. right now, there is a, uh, yeah, there is a lot going on regarding sex. It's, it's anything, lot of dynamics, like, a lot more dynamics than there ever was. And I am I am very good at what I do. Mm-hmm. and I. I limit myself to what I'm good at. Of course. Yeah. You, you never wanna be everything for everyone. Like even in my career, I'm very clear on the client that I represent, the location, the budget point, and I don't want anything else. There's someone else that can help you with that and the same as you. Absolutely. That doesn't mean that I don't believe in that. No. It's just not what I specialize in. You can only handle so many clients and conversations at once. It's a complicated subject because it's so, so individual. That's why I am still working. I only do one-on-one work and I am limited in the amount of people I can take because Of course, but I, it's, it's so personal. We are also different. Mm-hmm. this kind of work. You know, that to do a good job. I feel like personalized work is the best. Yeah. Yeah. On, on group settings. It deletes a lot. Some people take over the group, some people don't ever talk. Yeah. Yeah. One-on-one is better Yes. For this kind of work. I, yeah. I, I like one-on-one best. Yeah. Yeah. To start closing it out, Anyone listening today that's kind of struggling with dating, what's one thing that they can change this week that would at least get them on the path of epic love? They're like, like similar to our beginning conversation. No trouble attracting people, but not the ideal person they're looking for. Right. So if that is happening, usually it's a matter of commitment. Mm. It's a little bit of a challenge with commitment. So they're not really, really ready they're attracting the wrong person because they're not ready. Ah. When they point and they're clear on what they want and they believe they can have it, and they believe it's happening for them, and they take action, it'll happen. Mm-hmm. You're right. Sometimes not in place when they're not clear on what they want. And usually if we don't have clarity, it's because we don't have confidence that we can get it. it starts with great reminder to be confident enough that what we want is gonna happen. That if we have the desire inside of ourselves is there to be fulfilled. The, I don't know if people believe in God or the universe. There is an intelligence. Could be God, could be the universe, I don't know. But you know, there is an intelligence that creates everything in this life. Mm-hmm. and it creates what we want and what we don't want. And it also creates in the same creation of the desire, the fulfillment of the desire is building inside. when we don't have, uh, the confidence, the clarity, the faith, the belief that we deserve it, that, and this is the truth, who we are is enough to be loved in relationships and in love. We don't have to do anything. We don't. It's not that the level of objects who we are is enough. We as women, we bring enough value to the life of a man. Men live very. Boring lives in a way. Very brave. You know, very one-dimensional, I like to say. Right? I always like, it's so one dimensional. If you go to um, a men's you that you like to hang out with your dates, go to the bathroom and see, you will go to the bathroom and go to the shower and they awful, one bottle that they bought. A Trader Joe's that is body wash, shampoo, conditioner, and moisturizer all in one So bad. Go to my bathroom. I have, you know, everything. Five different shampoos, one for color, one for uh, So many things. Yeah. A brush for the other cleanser for this, a cleanser for the, it's like we, we bring the universe today. I agree. We color, we bring music, we bring our feminine energy, we bring our stardust, we bring that. So it's beautiful. They really crave to be with us, up to us to believe that we have it, and also that we have it in ourselves to be very feminine and, and open and, and, and, you know, share our life with the men, but also have a very strong backbone and put a, a boundary when, you know, so I love Latin American women. I just think they're the best of both worlds. I just think they're, they're feminine energy with no bullshit you know, you know what I mean? It's like the, it's the ultimate package I always found. don't you agree? I don't know. I, I, I just find Latin American women are very feminine, but they have the spice that I love or they're not. Yeah. Like if you, they'll take a lot, but if you cross that line, you will know. And that's exactly what I, I teach them. Yeah. It's like, just be soft on the outside. The only way we can make out with a guy with gusto and enjoy it and really, really have a good time is if we also have the confidence that when the time is up, if we don't wanna have sex, we can say, this was enough for me today. Yeah. Gotta go. if we cannot place those boundaries and, and share our needs and what we want and we, what we don't want, we are always gonna be scared and, and, you know, and, and not showing our light. Mm-hmm. So the idea is to just show who you are to the world. Yeah. Yeah. Trust yourself that the woman you are becoming will catch you. Mm-hmm. you'll be safe. We live in a safe world, most of us here in the States. where you can be yourself. Yeah. And be happy, but having a backbone because the age of Domas is over. I agree. Natalia last question for you. Obviously you are married and very happily married. What's one thing that you do daily, weekly, in your relationship to keep it epic? I like to go on like a quarterly trip with him. Okay, nice. Yeah. Yeah. I like to How long? Like a week long weekend or three days before? It doesn't have to be that long, but just, you know, usually. No phones. Yeah. You know, like it's just no internet, like fireplace, things like that. It's very just to be connected for four days. Yeah. Four or five days. Yeah. Hikes, waterfalls. You know, like we are very outdoor sea and active, so we can go to the Grand Canyon and hike. Yeah. And Canyon, we live in a beautiful area here. We are blessed. We actually have the Grand Canyon on one side. We had the beach, California on the other side. We have beauty above. So we, we are really outdoorsy and we like to do that. And then day to day is just appreciating. Yeah. Just appreciate, you know, a good guy when you appreciate a good guy. When he does something good, he wants to do more for you. Mm. One dimensional, remember But I love it. I don't know if I can handle any more dimensions from a man, to be honest. Yeah. One is enough. Natalia, thank you so much for being here. I feel like the women, especially that listen to this podcast, everything you're giving right now is gold. It's what they need to hear, whether they're single in a relationship or not. It's, I think women in their twenties and thirties, like I said, happy, happily married, engaged, or single. You're all kind of. Balancing and struggling with the same thing. So I feel like you reminded us a lot of what we really needed to hear today. So thank you so much. Thank you for saying that. Thank you. And thank you. I appreciate being here and, and I appreciate your audience and yes, and talking about love is my favorite thing to know. and anyone listening um, Natalia, where can they find you best if they wanna connect further? Instagram at Epic Love Coach. I have a link on my bio where they can go to my website, to my calendarly, to, I have a free resource there to my newsletter, YouTube, turn all is there. All of it. Oh, I love it. Thank you again. Thank you. Did you know that I'm not only a podcast host, but in my full-time career, I met Toronto based real estate agent. If you are someone, you know, is a busy professional looking to get into the Toronto real estate market, I highly recommend reaching out to me. You can go directly to my website@wwwdotjenelletremblant.com. And you can click the let's talk button to book a call with me. I work with buyers, renters, and sellers in the downtown and east end areas. So don't hesitate to reach out to me and I would love to help you find your next home. And in the meantime, we'll see you here back next week.