Unjust Layoffs, Reclaiming Your Power, and Closing The Gender Equity Gap with Jennifer Hargreaves Artwork

Ebb and Glow

Welcome to Ebb and Glow — the podcast that shows you how everyday people are taking on life’s ups and downs and coming out better than before. Your host, Jenelle Tremblett, will be with you weekly and with special guests, to chat about everything from careers, relationships, mindset, and everything in between. Are you tired of only seeing the highlight reel? Me too. This podcast will instead be peeking behind the curtain to reveal all the steps, pep talks, and glasses of wine that must happen before we become strong, confident, and resilient.

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Ebb and Glow

Unjust Layoffs, Reclaiming Your Power, and Closing The Gender Equity Gap with Jennifer Hargreaves

May 14, 2023 • Jenelle Tremblett • Episode 132

#132: Jennifer was laid off from her job at four months pregnant. A cruel joke by her employer about her desire to start a family turned into a harsh reality, leaving her feeling powerless and in a state of confusion and doubt. But, after a few years, Jennifer created a new narrative about what was possible for her in her career and life.

Today, Jennifer Hargreaves is the Founder of tellent, a diversity recruitment and social impact organization on a mission to close the opportunity equity gap by connecting women’s limitless potential to the professional world.

Jennifer's Ebbs

Laid off at four months pregnant
Losing jobs
Feeling powerless
Stress of entrepreneurship

Jennifer's Glows

Learning to put her happiness first
Building a successful company
Closing the gender equity gap

0:00

Welcome to the ebb and glow podcast. I'm your host, Janelle Tremlett. And I'm a firm believer that even when life doesn't go as planned, it is taking you exactly where you're meant to be on this podcast. I'm here to help you finally release control of what you think you want and begin to just trust in the ebbs and flows of life. Each week, I will show you how to build that positive mindset radiate with self confidence and cultivate an unshakeable resilience. Let me prove to you that even when life ebb. You will glow. Hello everyone. And welcome to episode 1 30, 2 of the Eben glow podcast. I'm your host Janell Tremlett. And I know you are going to love today's episode, Our guests today, Jenny Hargreaves found herself facing an unexpected, an unjust challenge at a pivotal time in her life. Imagine being laid off from your job, not only when you're at the height of your professional capabilities, but also when you're four months pregnant. A cruel joke by her employer about her desire to start a family turned into a harsh reality, leaving Jenny in a state of confusion and doubt. But instead of succumbing to despair, Jenny chose a different path. One that would lead her to reclaim her power, redefine her narrative and shatter the limitations. Others had imposed on her. Today Jenny is now the founder of her company talent, a diversity recruitment and social impact organization on a mission to close the opportunity equity gap by connecting women's limitless potential to the professional world. Jenny has traveled and worked across multiple continents. Building her experience, working with government And marketing agencies before she launched into entrepreneurship today, Jenny lives and works in Thornbury, Ontario with her partner and two kids. What you are going to discover in today's episode with Jenny, Is that she does not listen to the word? No. and that's one of my favorite qualities about people. I too am like that. And while it definitely has gotten me in trouble throughout my life, I definitely see it as Jenny sees it as a huge, powerful quality in ourselves. so without further ado let's jump into this remarkable tale of resilience personal growth and the unwavering strength that lies with nsl okay enjoy Jenny, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. I have to ask you about this right away just because I was like, okay, let me hit record so we can start talking. Jenny comes to this podcast and is like, I just got a tattoo, and Jenny is on this like whole journey of doing all the things she always wanted to do, so I love it. I love it. Are you happy with the tattoo? I'm super happy. So my mom growing up was like, you're not allowed a tattoo. Like I'm still scared of my mother. I'm 43 years old and I got my first tattoo because my mom told me like, you're not allowed a tattoo. So I've been told for years I'm not allowed to get a tattoo. And this year I am on this quest to do things that I really wanna do that bring me joy instead of just putting it off and putting it off and putting it off. So I got a tattoo, but I was kind of scared to tell my mom, have you told. I did. What did she say? I did And she handled it pretty well, I have to say. She said, thank goodness it's delicate. So I haven't really told her about the one that I want yet. That's all over my back and my shouldering down my sleeves. So that one's coming next. But that one I is gonna be a bit harder to sell her on, but she was okay with this one. But I love it. I'm so excited to get it. Remind me how old your kids are. They're eight and. Are they starting to realize they have a cool mom or is that not an option yet? I mean, I like to think so. We do a lot of, a lot of fun things together. I don't know. I don't know if anyone else remembers, like, their, parents when they were younger. I always thought my parents and my family were freaking crazy. Like, I was like, why are my parents so weird? Like, and now I'm realizing every day I'm turning into my mother. Like, I'm like, how can I embarrass my kids today? Right. I got a tattoo summer after first year. And immediately within a couple of months I started getting it removed already. And it's, it's, oh no. And I've been getting rid of it for like 10 years. That's hilarious. So that's when I wanted to get my tattoo and mom's like, I will cut you off financially if you get a tattoo. Like she was. Hardcore serious, don't get a tattoo. So it took me long. I wish, I wish my mom was harder on me, but I, I was the rebellious type ever since I was like 18, 19. you're doing all your rebellious things now. I know I brought my son with me as well. He came to the tattoo parlor with me, and I told him that when he was 43 he could get a tattoo. So I think that's fair. Yeah. I would still get another one. Like I would still get the same thing, maybe just in a different spot. Like I, yeah, I'm, I don't think they're bad by any means. I just, it wasn't, I should have just said no. Once they did the temporary thing on me at the beginning. Well, there you go. You live and you learn, why this tattoo? So you got it's, it's like a Hindu meaning, but what is the meaning behind it? Again, it's very much exactly what you just said is you live and you learn. So I don't know how to pronounce it. I'm gonna butcher it. It's. Ami, ami, ami and basically it's about life's journey. So you're born and then your life's path goes all over, and sometimes you feel like you're going in completely the wrong direction, but that's okay. You're always exactly where you're meant to be, and that really, really, Resonates with me. Because I believe all of my experience, everything that's led me up to this point right now has led me to where I'm supposed to be. And I'm supposed to be right here, right now. And um, that meaning to me is huge. And there's gonna be shit happening that's, you know, not gonna go to plan. And this tattoo reminds me that that's okay. Right? That's okay. Life is a journey. We're on a path and I'm here to. Mm. Yeah, I saw this TikTok, I think it was last night, and it basically was like when you're knocking on a door and it's not opening, your ego is telling you that there's something behind the door, but I'm telling you, it's empty behind it. It's just your ego thinking that there's something behind it. And I'm sure you resonate with that as well. Absolutely. Right. I think that the journey to listening to yourself versus to others and having this fear of missing out, it's, we have to start looking inward. And really reconnecting to what it is that we want, not what the world thinks we should want, not what other people think we should want, but what is it that we truly want, and trusting ourselves and listening to that voice. And I think that's what that TikTok video probably meant as well, is that, you know, why is it you want it? And I think that's a, a question for all of us is why is that? Why do you want that? Is it because you truly want it? Or is it a message from your childhood? Is it what your culture thinks you should be doing? Is it what your peers are doing? And you're comparing yourself against, but what is it actually that you truly want? And I think if we can start peeling back the layers on that we can find so much more joy. Mm-hmm. Because we're living for ourselves and not for someone. You've had a lot of doors closed on you before and doors that you thought were gonna be open for the exact path you were meant to go down. One of the biggest stories, and the reason why we're here today is you got laid off from your job while you were four months pregnant and you know for sure that is why you were laid off and let go. So talk to me about that Experie. Well, it's always hard to say. I know for sure. So, um, come on. We know. I, no, I I have a sneaking suspicion, you know that. Yes. But it, it's all in what you choose to believe in, the stories you choose to believe. Right. So, when I started my career, I thought I could be, do, or have whatever I want. Like my parents told me, you know, go out there and, and do what you want and we've got your back. So I did And I thought I was on track to be, do or have what I wanted, and I, I really wanted to go into international business development. So, opening up new markets for companies traveling into all these wild places, being the first boots on the ground, I wanted to suss everything out and then get a business established there. And I was doing pretty well. I had been working for the New Zealand government and I'd been working in New York and New Zealand and London. And when I moved to the uk it was fascinating cuz it was kind of the first time where, where I. Was aware because looking back now, I look back and maybe it wasn't as easy as I thought. Like I, I missed a whole bunch of things which I think created a story as well in my professional development. But when I got to London I found it really difficult to get a job, I didn't have local networks. I was very North American. I looked younger than I was, and I was told quite a bit that, you know, I, I just wasn't suitable for the role. I finally got a job and they started me clipping coupons and right at the bottom, like kind of, and I was like, oh, okay. Yeah, this is cool. Well, I'll organize meetings and do travel and clip coupons and then. Eventually they're gonna realize that they're not utilizing me to my full potential. Cause I can do so much more than this. Like if these guys want it, I could open up new markets for them in North America and mm-hmm. You know, all these connections I have and all this experience I have, I can do way more than this. But if I just sit still and do my work, they're gonna realize that actually. they can use me more, right? Like I can do more. I got married while I was in London and when I came back from my wedding and my honeymoon they took my role from a contract to a permanent role. And in the interview process when we were discussing it, they said, you know, this role isn't gonna suit someone who's looking to have kids anytime soon, which I thought was fascinating. And I thought, oh, this is interesting. Maybe I'll check with you before I have sex with my partner. Like, I, like is this a discussion I have with you first or my partner first? No. But anyway, I kind of just dismissed it as like, okay, that's a weird thing to say, but Sure. And even one of my colleagues who I adore said to me, oh, I didn't think you'd be coming back to work. I'm like, what? After I got married, what's happening here? Right. Yeah. So it was odd and then, They joked again, you know, you're pregnant. Haha, you're fired. And I, I wasn't pregnant and I was like, no, no dude, I'm not pregnant and you can't say that to me. But then I did get pregnant and I did tell them, and four days after I told them I was made redundant. So their reasoning for me being made redundant was not that I was pregnant. It was overhead costs and everything else, but it was a huge turning point in my career. And yes, It felt like a door was slammed in my face and it was. It changed my entire belief system about what was possible for me. Mm-hmm. So that door I created. So I created the door because all of a sudden I thought I can't have a career and be a good mom. I thought maybe I'm not as good as I thought I was. I thought maybe the world's not as progressive as we once thought it was. I thought Maybe I should just raise my kids because that's the most important thing and I should put all my attention in there too, right? So all of a sudden I created this massive wall and a shut door. They never said it was because of that, but with all the jokes and everything else, they made of a lot of assumptions. Let me make some too. Were you the only woman in the office? Like why is this such a crazy idea that women could have a career and also be married and have kids? I don't know. There was other women and I think one of the women just came back from maternity leave, so I wonder if they were like, I don't know, honestly, like I can make a ton of assumptions, but. the worst part about all of it was that I loved this company, their mission. I loved what they were doing. They were working in the innovation space. I had a couple, like the owner and I were very close. Mm-hmm. I was excited about what I could do there. And if they had just had a conversation with me, we could have avoided all of it. Do you know what I mean? And, and that's where, that's truly at the end of the day, what I struggled with, like my dad asked me, he said, you know, what does an ideal outcome look like to you in resolving all of this? And I said, honestly, it's an apology from the founder. I'm so hurt by this. He could have just talked to me like a human, like an adult, and asked me what I wanted. Like, oh, you're pregnant. Do you want to keep working? Do you want to like, stop making assumptions, like all these assumptions were made and it, it could have just been all avoided with a conversation. The women listening to this podcast are women that are always wondering, can I have it all me? And there's stories like this that remind us that there can be doors slammed in our face, and sometimes it feels like we don't have control over anything. Did it feel that way where you came into that job and into that career path thinking that I could be due and have it all, and all of a sudden that's all taken from you? So what emotions are you left with in that moment? It felt like somebody put a glass over top of me. So like I was trapped inside and overturned a glass so I could see what everyone else was doing and what was going on around me, but I was trapped. This was it. I felt like my circumstances dictated what I could be do or have versus me dictating what I could be do or have. And I stayed in that space for probably four years. Wow. So for anyone who's been laid off, first of all, getting laid off sucks, right? Like mm-hmm. Even if you pull the hole, like you know, it wasn't me, it was them and you know, it wasn't personal and I'll bounce back and all that stuff. It still sucks. There's still this kind of recovery and healing that needs to happen before you can bounce back and have a conversation with yourself and, and create new stories and new narratives that make more sense for you, right? And reframe things and et cetera, et cetera. But yeah, it took a long time for me. It was kind of like everything piled on top of each other, including motherhood. So I was laid off and then when I was pregnant and then I had a baby. And for anyone who's had kids, they know that it can be a game changer. And especially being the primary caregiver. So I was, I took three years off work cause I got pregnant again. So, I mean, I'm not working, what else am I gonna do? Mm-hmm. Um, So I had another baby return back to Canada pregnant, renovated the house, but in, in this conflicting feeling of I wanna work, I love working, like I love working, I love what I do. So I have this feeling of like Jenny, who Jenny is, and then. I love my kids and I wanna spend time with them. My husband was traveling all the time, so I'm in the space now of, well, how do I work when I have to be home and I'm the primary caregiver for my kids and my husband's traveling all the time. So that also felt impossible. That felt like that glass that was around me, right, is, okay, well I can only work like this. I can only take a part-time job getting. Not a lot of money to do work that's not challenging to me, where I'm not really growing and that's what I thought was available to me. That's what I thought was the option was, okay, I guess this is it, or I could go back to work and that's not what I wanted my family life to look like. I didn't want my kids to be, you know, in daycare all day and daycare at night, neither my partner or I being home ever. That's not what I wanted either, so I just thought that it. Outside of the glass, it sure other people had it worked, but they, they were different. They had different circumstances. These are my circumstances and it's not possible for me. So really, yeah, it lasted a good four years. I'd probably say. this is way before the age of digital working and building your own business online. Like this is way before, this is early two thousands. Like you're making me sound really old. No, but I just mean like even nowadays, it's only now that the, the stay-at-home mom type person. Realizing they can do both. I can build some kind of online business or do part-time work from home, still bring in money and still be part of my kids' lives. It's so possible. It's 10 years ago, like this is not happening. 10 years ago when I was looking for a job, and this is why I started talent, was I was looking for a job and the, I was typing in part-time professional. Or freelance professional jobs and part-time professional jobs. I was getting like retail jobs and opportunities seasonal jobs and opportunities and I just couldn't find it. And I was looking on I really love innovation. I was looking at and I was working in food and beverage, so I was like, okay, maybe I can work for like a big CPG company. When I looked at their flexible work, and that's the first thing I did was looked at the culture like, how can I work there? What would it look like? Before any kind of job I looked at, it was like, how can this work for my family was the first question I had. And flexible work was very much an accommodation, which honestly all that does is make bias and then discrimination in the workforce worse because now you're being accommodated. So now while, and you're gonna be talked about, oh, we're accommodating Jenny because Jenny needs to take care of her kids at home. She's a part-timer. She's not as committed Right. To the organization. Even if I got in there early and left early, mm-hmm. It's the perception. So the flexible work policies were like written into as an accommodation and I, it was really hard to find what kind of companies had the flexibility or value. Actually, I'm an amazing human, even if I'm not in the office between the hours of nine to five and because I have other interests. And that's shifted a lot. It has shifted a lot. Thank God, because 10 years ago companies were missing out on so, so, so much talent and not even that, but it's also affecting women's careers and women. Motivation for wanting to go into the corporate world. There's so many stories of girls my age in their twenties and thirties that if they're interviewing for a job, they don't wear their wedding ring. That's ridiculous. Ooh. Ooh. That's nuts. Yeah. but the fact that us as women, we need to think about those things. Because the moment, if an interviewer, and it's usually women who are the biased ones when they're interviewing. The moment they see that wedding ring, that's what they're thinking about. Okay. She's on track to get married this year, probably getting pregnant next year, taking maternity leave. So we only got a year and a half of her. Then we gotta hire for this position. Again, it's, it's tough and I have to say, If you're looking for a job, I'll just give you a little handsome, handsome, finding a good company culture for anyone who's listening. Yeah. But look at who has paternity leave. Mm-hmm. Because a paternity leave shows that they're not just assuming women are going to have babies and take mat leave. They're saying actually, you are a dad and you wanna take a paternity. Cool. Like the more we can get everybody taking leaves, the more we normalize this, because guess what? People are gonna continue to have children. So if we can normalize. Right then, you know, look for those kind of things For your employers, when you're looking at like the benefits they offer, the company culture, the support, ask about paternity leave as well. Yeah, yeah. My friends now that are getting engaged and getting married this year, those who are interviewing for jobs, they're asking right away maternity leave policies and they're having those conversations upfront and you have to, because. As a person interviewing for jobs, I see myself at this company for multiple years and I wanna see how that's going to work within my life. My life is not this company and never will be. So, yeah, I wanna find out a way that I can dedicate my time to your company and work and get paid for that. But like, I also have a life. So those need to work together. And there's, unfortunately, there's still some companies out there that do not see how that works together, but hey, those are not the companies I think that are gonna thrive in the long term. Oh, a hundred percent. And that's, again, coming back to this tattoo and, and life's journeys are, these are lessons that we're gonna. Right, either the hard way, like for me, but I wouldn't, if this had never happened to me, I wouldn't be helping hundreds of women to build their own careers and their own career paths. So I feel like all my experiences have led me to here for a reason, and I think that happens with all of us. In our experiences and, and I know in the moment, trust me, like I said, it was like four years before I was able to look at this in a positive light and say, well, what have I learned from this? What am I gonna do about it? So it doesn't have to happen overnight, but just trusting that, that you have the ability to get on your right path, you are on your right path, and just kind of trust in the process and the universe. Not to bring too much woowoo into this, but just to trust that it's all working out for you. We only ever see that at the end. Like even now with what we were talking about before we hit record, I'm now seeing, ah, my jobs prior to real estate have kind of set me up for these opportunities that are coming in. The, the struggles that I deal with with clients nowadays. I have the tools from previous experience and previous careers prior to my current career that allows me to be able to handle that. If I just jumped in right into this from the get-go, I wouldn't have those skills but you only see it hindsight's 2020. You only see it way after and you understand how it all plays in together. Yeah. And I truly believe you have to process the work trauma. Right. Whatever it is. Like you have to sit in it and feel it. someone said to me the other day, they made a comment about toxic positivity and I am a very positive person. Like you're not toxic. Right. But this, cause I was like, am I toxic? Positive? But I truly believe too that you have to move through the feelings. Yeah. Of all of it, right? Like bad stuff is gonna happen. Yeah, it totally is. And we like being laid off. People are getting laid off right now and that sucks. Like you can get to reframing it, we can get there and you will get there. You will. Right. All feelings pass, you will get through it, but you do need to take some time to process it and feel the. Yeah. Good and bad. Yeah. Post layoff, you mentioned, yeah. It took you four years to kind of get back into a career path, correct? Mm-hmm. Yeah. what conversations are you having with yourself to finally get yourself back in the head space of taking control of your future? What sparked you wanting to go? I absolutely hate being told what to do, Janelle, honestly, like, do not tell me what to do. Ask my parents and my poor husband because it will backfire. do you find if you ask for advice from someone and you know they're telling you the better path you should go, but because they told you, you almost don't even wanna take it, even though it's like self-sabotage. I had this conversation with my mom the other day, and then I had to call her back and I said, I'm sorry I wasn't very solutions focused. I thought I was right. Oh, I just need to be right. I'm laughing cuz I'm the same way. Yeah. I was like, I'm really sorry I was so, you know, just not open to your suggestions or what you were saying. I just needed to take a moment and process and. You, you were right. I, I'm gonna do it, but yeah, for sure. If you want me to do something, tell me not to do it. Yeah. And and we'll go from there. So, or at least frame it away where it ends up being my idea. Yeah, and I'll definitely do it then. But I also think that's what makes us, that's what makes us great and challengers right, is I always got in trouble for asking why as a teenager. Like, why, why do I have to do that? I'm so confused. Why, why? But now I used to think that was like a terrible quality cause I was always getting in trouble. Now I embrace it and it's my superpower. If I wasn't asking why I wouldn't be changing the freaking world, right? Like I am a disruptor. The world needs disruptors. Mm-hmm. In all forms, in community, in families, in the workforce. the world needs disruptors, and there is nothing wrong with asking why. Mm-hmm. Why are we doing the same thing over and over again if it's not getting us the results that we want? So true. Nothing will change if you don't ask why. Right. So, anyway, I'm, You know, saying, well, why is this happening? Why, you know, can't I find a job? Why aren't employers like using this labor force here that has so much to give so why is this happening? Why are my friends who are on track to leadership and saying, actually, I don't want it anymore because they have three. Right. Why aren't companies seeing this, this opportunity? And finally one of my girlfriends said, she said, Jenny, stop talking about it and do something about it. I was like, Hmm, that's harsh. What a great friend. What a great friend she is. Her name's Sarah. That's if she's listening. But yeah. And so I did, so I went down, you know, super nervous and very low self-esteem with thinking, you know, well, what have I actually got to contribute or give? All I've done is raise these kids and get fired, right? So who am I to to do this? Right to start this company, who do I think I am? And that was kind of the journey in launching talent. So when Talent first started, it was a job board. I wanted just to curate professional part-time jobs with, I saw other entrepreneurs or solopreneurs who wanted to work together. Mm-hmm. Um, And who maybe didn't need full-time help, but just part-time. I thought, let's start connecting people through this way. And even as an entrepreneur, it took me a couple of years to say I'm an entrepreneur versus I'm a mom with a side hustle and hobby trying to do this thing. So it was a huge mindset shift even in that, which all stemmed from that workforce trauma I had where I was laid. And I adopted that mindset that stuck with me. It took me a long time to reframe it and change it. So talking about bouncing back from layoffs, bouncing back from other things that happened, it takes time and everybody's journey is different. So mine may have taken, you know, three or four years for me to get back into the workforce and start a company, and then another two years after that for me to truly, truly step into my power. Mm-hmm. When you started telling friends and family, your husband, your parents, that you're gonna launch this company, anyone tell you you're crazy? Oh, everybody. Um, That's when you know you're on the right track. Yeah. Right? What are you thinking? Fundamentally what I'm doing is trying to change society, right? I'm trying to close the gender pay. That's what I'm trying to do. Like I don't play small here. We're going big. We're going big. But basically what I saw when I was laid off was I, as a woman and a, as a mom was because of something that happened. Society's belief in the workforce. Sidelined. I was sidelined, right? And I, I let myself be sidelined, so I was sidelined. I stayed at home with my kids and I had a lot of really like well-intentioned messages around being a stay-at-home mom. So my husband, you know, was like, this is perfect. You know, someone's at home to stay with the kids. So I can work late, I can travel, I can take those extra meetings. I can be stressed because everything that needs to happen at home is happening. I don't have to worry about it, right? I have my mom. Bless her, who's like, this is a really important time for your kids growing up. Like, are you sure you wanna work? I have like, it's the pressure that, and then I have my ideas. My mom was a stay-at-home mom, so actually if I wanna be a good mom and I wanna have a close family, I should be at home with my kids as well. So all of these messaging, all of these messages, and then looking at what would going to work look like and how hard it. Is it worth that stress? Yeah. Is it worth all of that? How much money am I gonna earn? Am I gonna be able to pay for daycare? Will my salary even cover it? Do I want my kids in daycare? Do good moms put their kids in daycare? Like all my upbringing, all my thoughts, all society's thoughts. My career did this and my husband's career did this. Yep. Your husband's career took off as you took a, oh, it took off a seat back or a backseat and. Something tells me that did not sit right with you. Well, that's the opportunity equity gap. it's access to opportunity. So I'm a white, woman with privilege, imagine Canadian. Yeah. Like from a woman's perspective, I have all the privilege. Right. So then look at the intersectionality to gender equity as well is like, then imagine being a woman of color, right? Or an L b, GT Q, immigrant, an immigrant, new Canadian, all of these things. If I'm having this much challenge with access to opportunity, imagine what other women are having. Yeah. Insane. So this is where I really stepped in to say, okay, well let's do something about this. So the first reaction from friends and family was, Do you wanna start with something smaller? Everyone's always trying to make us play small. Hey, do you wanna start like with a, a smaller goal here, Jenny? Yeah. And um, again, all very well intentioned. So my husband and I, we put some money and said, okay, we'll give it a year and$20,000. We'll invest into the company and, and we'll see how we go. And of course, I spent all that money. A year and wasn't ready to quit. So I kept going. And then after year two I kept going and then 3, 4, 5. So I'm still here seven years later. and people still think I'm crazy, but I love it. Of course. But yeah. Yeah. Think of all of the people in the world who have done anything great. People are still calling them crazy too. Somebody said to me once, you have to be naive to change the world. Yes. And I loved that. Cause I was like, Right. You have to be. Absolutely. Yeah. Forget reality. You can have so much confidence and dreams within you, but is there anyone that you were looking at, maybe other female founders or other people who have started companies or people who have overcome things that you were like, see if they can do it. I definitely can do it. Do you know what's so funny? Because I've asked Vanessa's quite a bit before. No, like you just peled that fire in you. I don't like comparing. Mm-hmm. Because I always end up feeling disheartened, like it's more about, it's more about what can I do? it's almost like a personal competition of. I usually commit to doing something. I say yes first and then build it. So I like to tell my team, okay, we're we're riding the bike as we're building it. Like, let's figure out how this is gonna work, because I wanna create things that are new. I want to do something different to get different results because, so if I'm looking at somebody else to see what they've done, that's great and that's worked for them. But I'm d. So, right. I'm different than you, I'm different than anyone listening to this podcast. And they're different from us. Mm-hmm. Is, we're all different. And it's all about creating our unique path. So I've really tapped into getting support and helping me identify my path and my authentic leadership style, my drive. And I've had lots of support from a mindset perspective to help me visualize what my path looks like, cuz I don't know anyone. Whose version of success is the same as mine? Mm-hmm. Cause we're all so different. At what point of starting your business did you finally realize, Hmm, I'm onto something, things are gonna work? Are you gonna tell me? Never. Yeah. Yesterday? No. I'd say with what I'm doing, it was a challenge to come up with a profitable business model. Yeah. Because I'm a social enterprise. And I wanna help women. Who are in career transition, who are returning to the workforce, who have had, or who have had some workforce drama and they don't realize their full potential yet. So if you're thinking of my audience, they're unemployed or they don't believe in their full potential yet. And it's hard to invest in yourself when you don't believe in your full potential. Yeah. But those are the people I'm most excited about helping. Mm-hmm. So the way that we set up the business model that finally, Was when we launched the Propeller Experience. So the Propeller Experience is a group coaching program and collective to help women unlock their career potential and accelerate their career success in line with what their version of success looks like, not someone else's. So that's heavily, heavily subsidized that group coaching program with corporate sponsors. So I had to get really clever and think outside of the box in terms of how I. Deliver a product that is reasonable for women to invest in themselves as well as scale the company, build the team, and pay myself. I also honestly believe if you put six people in a room mm-hmm. Bring in different people from different walks of life, different experiences, and say, solve this problem you'll be able to solve a problem if you're like, you can't leave the. You gotta solve this problem, by the end of the day, you're gonna have something like, throw everything you know at the wall, like out the door and just get a whiteboard, get some stickers, and solve the problem. Yes. That's how, that's how it happens. What's been the absolute biggest challenge besides the funding and the profitability model of your company so far? I would say being an entrepreneur can be lonely. Right. So because it's all on you and you have to be sure and passionate about what you're doing, like, or you won't stick with it. Yeah. Like you have to love what you're doing or you won't stick with it. And I would say that can be exhausting. And the only people that understand how you feel is other entrepreneurs, your husband's never gonna understand. He's go, he got a front row seat to it, but he is never gonna understand. Your family's never gonna understand, your friends are never, it's only other entrepreneurs. Yeah. And it's what's, what would I, it's is it called stickability or it's something like that? It, or um, grit basically is having the passion and persistence to bring your vision to. But anybody, I, I truly believe we all have unlimited potential. And anybody, if you can see it, you can be it. If you see it, you can create it and I see it, right? And it's, I'm getting it out and I'm creating it. But you know, that is a journey and it's a process. And as long as that vision is up there, I'm gonna make it happen. It's happen. Right. When that vision is gone, then maybe I'll stop doing what I'm doing. But that vision has been there for seven years. Even at the points where I thought, okay, I've gotta quit. Like I can't keep going like this. And there's been two times throughout my career in talent as an entrepreneur where I thought, okay, maybe it's time to hang it up. But it'ss not too many. No, I know that's not too bad. But where I had the, the proper conversation where I said, okay, is this, is this still what I wanna do? And I'm still here. I, I, because I love it. I love it. Hmm. Yeah. There are a lot of women in the position today that you were in when you got laid off, when you were pregnant, so many women. What advice do you have for them to keep going and maybe eventually be on the path that you are? It all starts with getting clarity around what it is that you truly want, right? And some of you, your gut instinct might be to get a job, right? Mm-hmm. Is the first thing. But I really want you to think about what kind of job, what do you wanna be doing? We have this one life. This is it. This is all we get. What do you wanna do? How do you want to spend your time? Who do you wanna work for? What do you want the company culture to look like? What activities do you wanna do? How much time do you wanna spend with your kids? Like, start with getting really, really clear about what it is that you want. And you're gonna have this voice inside your head that's gonna say, oh, don't be silly. You can't do that. Like, that's not possible for you. And Jenny might say, you know, That she has limiting beliefs, but they're not like my limiting, my mine are true. My circum, my glass cage is true. It's strong, it's there. And as long as you give those beliefs power, they will be there. Mm-hmm. So you can, you know, you either can or can't. Whatever you choose to believe will be right. So which one are you gonna choose to believe? And that starts first with figuring out what it is that you want. Mm. What about the women who have partners that really, really don't want them leaving the kids and working outta the home or doing anything that's gonna distract them from raising the kids? Yes. I'm laughing cuz my husband did not want me to go back to work because obviously was very nice for him to have someone at home all the time. But it comes back to what do you want and then what do you want? Right. and I think the belief, knowing that you can have both, it doesn't have to be one or the other. Yeah. So this was for me, is what do I want? I would die like I would shrivel up and just, you know, I have such like, maybe you're getting it from the podcast, but there's uh, big personality and I have so much energy and the energy has to go some. And it's not going to raising kids. There's so much more energy still outside of that. You can do both. I and I have a lot of energy for my kids and in the first couple, like when I was at home, yes, they were getting a lot of the energy and it was great. And I always think about like during Covid when I was homeschooling and trying to work and I was like, Where does my energy go Now we're gonna like do all these fun scavenger hunts and this and this, and I was a 10 outta 10 mom, and then I ran outta energy for them. I was like, I can't do this. So I have all this energy that needs to go somewhere. Yeah. So if I'm thinking about what do I want, it is, okay, well I need for this energy to go somewhere. If my partner supports me in that, like this is my ideal, I wanna be able to be myself and show up my as myself in this relationship. If my partner doesn't want that, is that okay with me? Hmm. Right. Is that okay? And then if it's not okay, then the question is, what do I want? Do I want this feeling or do I want my family to stay together? Or do I want, like, is there another solution where I can find something else that works, a new way to do this, where we're all getting what we want? And I think with entrepreneurship, that gave me, I was still the primary caregiver for three years. I was running talent. I was still, I was running the company with the kids sitting on my lap, literally at some, in some cases. And that was sort of the solution to creating, like, what do I want? Well, I want this energy, I want this. And then I had to shift more and involve more as the company grew and I grew and my wants changed and shifted and evolved as well. one of the things that really scares me about the idea of being a stay-at-home mom full-time is what happens when the kids are raised and they're adults. So all of a sudden, 18 years later, I think a lot of women wake up and look around. Their kids are gone, is just them and their partner, and they think, who am I? What do I like? Now it's time to focus on me. 18 years later, I I, that idea seems crazy to. Yeah. And, and that was a big driver, honestly, for me too, is I don't wanna lose me. You know, I had kids I when I was 34 and 36, and that's a lot of years to, to be a human, to be your own personality and yourself, and now all of a sudden you've gotta be everything for one other or two other people. And it's an evolution. Like I, I love being a mom, actually. Like, I absolutely love it. I love having adventures with my kids. I love playing with them. I love the life I've created with them. And, and I also wanna say for anyone who's a thing, who is a stay-at-home mom, go back to what it is you want. If you wanna be a stay-at-home mom and you, you own that, own it. Own it. There is nothing wrong with it. Like we have to. Comparing ourselves to other people again and just own what it is that we want. Yes, I want this. I love it. And if you're feeling pressure to go back to work, think about, come back to, well, what do I want? Mm-hmm. And then what do I want more? And then what's another solution? Because it is all. Figurable just to, to borrow a term there from Marie Folio. But it is, you can figure it out. You do have the power and the capacity to solve problems and figure this out. We are such smart individuals and we have infinite ability to get this shit done. Yeah. One thing I admire a lot about you is this. This attitude hasn't changed still to this day. One of the things that we talked about when we spoke last week is you are still thinking to this day, what is it that I want that's separate from everyone else? And if it is separate from everyone else, I'm still going for it. And one of those things we talked about is traveling. Your husband has no interest in traveling and exploring the world, but you do and you're not letting him stop you from going to do that. I love that. Yeah. So talk to me about that. So again, it comes down to what do I want, right? So yeah, part of that is like, what do I want as an individual? What do I want for my family? What do I want for my. What kind of legacy do I wanna lead? Like if this is it, I have this one opportunity and chance to live, what am I gonna do with it? And I love to travel. And my husband, like you said, Janelle, he hates traveling. He's not into it. So I've been pitching this idea to him that we should be traveling like. Okay. There's like adventure, then there's like crazy adventure. I'm just like, baby, step adventure, travel. Okay, yeah, you just wanna get out of Ontario, just get outta Ontario. Right? Or even in Ontario is fine, but for me it's different. I, I like learning, I like growing, I like exploring. So, I wanted to, I've been trying to sell him on. First of all, I said I can't travel cause my husband doesn't like to travel. And then I reframed that and said, I'm gonna have to travel differently than I thought if I wanna continue to travel. Mm-hmm. So it was first changing my language around, well I can't, cuz he doesn't like, it's like he doesn't like fish, so we don't eat fish. Right? Well, actually I can still cook fish. You can still cook fish. You just may have to cook Two things I just might have, right? or he might opt out of eating the fish and he can eat the rice and the salad and the everything else. So it's just reframing the language about what's possible and what I'm capable of doing. So with the traveling I thought, okay, well if he doesn't wanna travel with, How can this look? How do I want this to look for myself and for my family? Because, you know, my family is so important to me, so I'm going without him, a, I ask him every time, do you wanna come with me? So I include him right from the get-go and I give him the opportunity. It's not like I just go plan something and then drop it on him like I'm taking off without you. And he will say no, which is cool. And then he has agreed that he will come for a week with me wherever I go. So I wanna travel for a month. So I did this, we did a trial run and I went to New Zealand. And I went with my parents. I know New Zealand very well. My upbringing was from there and I lived there for many years. And that, that worked out really well. And I learned a whole bunch of lessons. Like one is I've gotta take the time off and not work because when I tried to work and do it, it was a disaster. It was way too much and it was just overwhelming. The second was, I love my kids, but I'm better when they've got someone else to play with, not just me. Yeah. So, that was another really good learning. And also hotel rooms. When you're traveling as a family and your kids are older because you can't just shut the door and let your kids go to sleep, you're all in the same room. So those are kind of the first lessons of like, but you're, you're gonna do it to learn it. You have to do it to learn it. And I always go with like, what's the worst case scenario? Mm-hmm. Is, well, I turn around and go home, right? Yeah. I call it quit and I'm out of there and I just come back to my, my safety. So, It's not that risky for me. So this next trip we're going on so I'm, that was pre Covid. We got back actually right as Covid hit from New Zealand. So I was like, okay, well I'm gonna do it again. So this year we've been winter camping, which was awesome. But again, it was like, okay, am I gonna get a dog sled and go into you? The middle of Algonquin Park or somewhere into the wilderness and drag my tent in with my two kids who are fighting with each other and slipping on ice and freezing. No, that's not what I'm doing. I'm gonna go to Arrowhead Provincial Park where we can stay in a year and we're gonna go like, do all these fun things and we're gonna take baby steps to adventuring and see what works, what doesn't, so that I can build on it every year. Mm-hmm. Um, So this year we're, we're going in a. We bought a secondhand trailer. We're going to the East coast. So we're traveling from Thornbury, Ontario out to the gas bay in Quebec and for full month. For a full month. And we're going to Prince Edward Island and back down through Vermont in the Adirondacks. We're doing a four and a half week trailer trip. So, my husband's gonna join me for the last seven days, but otherwise it's just the kids and I and just coming back. would, I love my husband to be planning all this. Absolutely. Yeah, that would be amazing. But he doesn't want to, it doesn't bring him joy. So I ask myself, is this still what I want? Right. Do I still wanna travel by myself? If the option is travel by myself or not travel? Yes. I wanna go by myself. By myself. I'll go by myself. Looking at the marriage question as well is, do you wanna be married to someone who doesn't wanna. Yes, I still wanna be married to him. Yes. Right? Like you love everything else. This would be nice if he could go with you, but this is not gonna be, you can make compromises and sacrifices. Right? And it, it's just figuring out it's gonna look different. Do you still want it like that? And then what do you want more is kind of where I go from and how I approach things all the time. So, yeah, I'm really looking forward to it. And so this winter camping was on my. Trailer tripping to the East Coast for a month, four and a half weeks. We're going mid-June to mid-July. And getting the tattoo, they're, they're on my list this year. Right. Don't tell me what to do, mom. Yeah, exactly. I'll show her. Hi, I'm an adult now. I can guarantee you that. This summer is going to be a memory that your kids have right up until they're adult age. And I bet you any money your husband's gonna regret not being part of all of it once he hears them talking about it for years. You know, like it's a lot of memories that he is missing out on, but it good on you for still wanting to go to create those because the other alternative is your kid's never experiencing any of this, And the kids aren't gonna, I mean, they're eight and 10, so they're starting to, to realize. But even in New Zealand, like they say they love New Zealand and remember it, but that's not, they, they remember the feelings. That's what they That's what I'm saying. Remember? Yeah. They remember how they felt. So even in, as we approach this, my husband and I is mm-hmm. What are the kids seeing too, right? They're seeing dad support Mom, be happy. Yeah. Right. And taking a team approach to it. So it's how, how are we making them feel? How do we do this so that they feel safe? Mm-hmm. Um, So yeah, it's, it's the feeling that's what they remember. It's reminded me that yes, you can be in a long-term relationship, you can be married to someone, but you don't have to give up all of your dreams and interests in order to be a supportive partner. And I think a lot of people tend to forget that. Yeah. And. I would say actually, when you are happy, everyone around you is happy. If you are not happy, you are not helping your kids, you're not helping your partner, you're not helping your work, you're not helping yourself. So if you can find that inner alignment and that happiness, everybody around you is happier. I agree. Because yeah, I mean, I've seen it in my own family growing. I, I feel like no one was really ever doing what they wanted. And it was a household of resentment. Yes. And lost dreams in my opinion. And I refuse to repeat that kind of stuff. And that's exactly what you're doing is you're refusing to ever create a household like that. You don't want that resentment. No. And here's the thing, like when I say getting what you want, it again comes down to that feeling. So for me, I wanna travel with my kids, right? Hey, guess what? I don't have a million dollars, so I'm not traveling to, you know, some place in a five star hotel. And yes, obviously I'd love to do that one day as well. I'm keeping my trailer Yeah, yeah. To the east coast, right? We're camping every night for$60 a night. It doesn't have to be like, you can get what you want, these feelings through smaller things every day versus waiting for like one big thing or thinking it has to be this big, massive shift because it doesn't have to be It can be small. Small thing. Right? It can be like, I wanna be around people who make me feel good about myself. Yeah. So I'm just gonna start slowly minimizing my time over. And spending more time over here. Right. So that doesn't actually have to cost anything. Mm-hmm. To get what you want. Because often I think we've been taught and raised to believe that it's wrong to want more, or that we can't have more, it's not open or available to us, or our mean inner critic is telling us that we're not good enough to get it or can't figure it out, or can't. So this is why I encourage you to write out things that you want, write a list of 50 things that you want, and then pick some things off the list that you can start doing right now that won't cost you a thing. Going for a walk in nature. Five minutes of meditation, right? Yep. Anything big and small when you look back and think about the emotions and stress that you had. When you had that layoff happen, and then you compare it to the person you are now that getting a tattoo going on in a trailer excursion with the kids. Is there, is there anything still similar about those two people? I've always been the rulebreaker, right? The, the why girl and the, the disruptor. The key difference is I, I, I love myself now. Mm. Mm-hmm. And I am unapologetically Jenny, whereas before I was apologetically Jenny, I think. And now I've just, I step in and own everything I used to think was a fault and horrible about me. I actually think the strength and a, a superpower. I don't think I ever would've discovered that had I not had that, wake up call, that realization and that glass, I've smash. Yeah, you have. Yeah. So last but not least, five years from now, when you're looking at your company five, 10 years, when you're thinking about legacy, what do you want people to think about when they think about your company? So funny, I was just talking about legacy on a hike yesterday, and we were talking about personal legacy and what you want people to say about you and. I was saying what I want my kids to say about me is Mom lived like Mom lived. That's what she did, is she, she enjoyed life and we enjoyed life with her. Like with mom, we lived, and I think for my company and the women we work with, I want them to say, Jenny gave me my life back. Like I am living. This is what, where I wanna get women to through our program is to that same point was, I am doing things I never thought I'd be able to do. And again, big and small, I got a tattoo. It's not that huge of a thing, but it was a huge thing for me. So that's my definition of living. I wanna get women to believing in themselves and I want them to say, thank you, Jenny. I feel. I'm living my most authentic life is where I want. That's the legacy I wanna get to and help, help women all across Canada. Jenny, you're not even talking about my legacy, and I feel like I'm about to tear up and I don't know why I'm so emotionally effective by it. I'm not even really a crier and I'm like, whew. Like I feel the power and that it's not even mine. Yeah, you can. You can use it. It's a good, now I, yeah, it's like I, again, I feel the power in it and I think those are big, long-term goals and legacy dreams to work towards. We're all so goal-driven and ambitious and yeah, you gotta remember to have fun along the way. For sure. Jenny when people wanna connect with you further, plug all of your channels, your socials, and where they can find you. Yeah, absolutely. So on Instagram, we are at, we are talent. Send me a direct email if you wanna get in touch and learn more about my program, the Propeller experience, or if you wanna know my itinerary for traveling around the East Coast with the kids, please feel free to reach out to me. Mm-hmm. Uh, And you can also find me at LinkedIn. Just search up my name, Jennifer Hargraves, and you can reach out and connect to me there. Jenny, thank you so much. When we got connected, I had no idea what we were gonna talk about. And even when we started talking last week, I thought, I don't even think this is what she reached out to me about, but I'm happy to chat about all of this. And we initially forgot why you wanted to get on the podcast, but overall, I'm just very inspired by you taking the reins of your own life and I'm excited to see what you build in the future. So thank you for being here. Thanks so much for having me, Jen. Did you know that I'm not only a podcast host, but in my full-time career, I met Toronto based real estate agent. If you are someone, you know, is a busy professional looking to get into the Toronto real estate market, I highly recommend reaching out to me. You can go directly to my website@wwwdotjenelletremblant.com. And you can click the let's talk button to book a call with me. I work with buyers, renters, and sellers in the downtown and east end areas. So don't hesitate to reach out to me and I would love to help you find your next home. And in the meantime, we'll see you here back next week.