Discovering Digital Nomad Life and Escaping The 9-5 with Jordana Abitbol Artwork

Ebb and Glow

Welcome to Ebb and Glow — the podcast that shows you how everyday people are taking on life’s ups and downs and coming out better than before. Your host, Jenelle Tremblett, will be with you weekly and with special guests, to chat about everything from careers, relationships, mindset, and everything in between. Are you tired of only seeing the highlight reel? Me too. This podcast will instead be peeking behind the curtain to reveal all the steps, pep talks, and glasses of wine that must happen before we become strong, confident, and resilient.

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Ebb and Glow

Discovering Digital Nomad Life and Escaping The 9-5 with Jordana Abitbol

May 30, 2023 • Jenelle Tremblett • Episode 135

#135. Jordana shares her journey of pursuing her dreams and making a major life change. She explains that her desire to travel and have a remote job led her to take her aspirations seriously.

Our conversation touches on the experience of living in a bustling city like Toronto and the challenges it brings, including long commutes and a constant sense of chaos. Jordana realized that she wanted a change from the hectic lifestyle and used the pandemic as an opportunity to reevaluate her goals and reprioritize her life.

Jordana describes how she balanced her nine-to-five job as an SEO specialist with building her own client base during her off-hours. She acquired clients through various means such as friends, business connections, and Facebook groups. With a meticulous approach, Jordana created a six-month plan, which included moving out of Toronto and starting a nomadic lifestyle.

Overall, this episode inspires listeners to embrace their dreams, overcome roadblocks, and create the life they desire. It highlights the importance of preparation, budgeting, and self-care while emphasizing that with the right mindset and determination, anything is possible.

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Welcome to the ebb and glow podcast. I'm your host, Janelle Tremlett. And I'm a firm believer that even when life doesn't go as planned, it is taking you exactly where you're meant to be on this podcast. I'm here to help you finally release control of what you think you want and begin to just trust in the ebbs and flows of life. Each week, I will show you how to build that positive mindset radiate with self confidence and cultivate an unshakeable resilience. Let me prove to you that even when life ebb. You will glow. Hello everyone. And welcome to episode 1 35 of the ebb and glow podcast. Today. I'm excited to bring you a guest that I know personally, we used to work together at Bumble back in 2018 and 2019. I believe. And I've been very inspired by Jordanna's changes she has made in the last few years. and I'm a little semi, N V S uh, I love her life right now. So Jordanna was tired of the nine to five hamster wheel of living in Toronto Jordanna plan towards a life of adventure and flexibility to work on her health and happiness. After six years of living and working in Toronto, Jordanna discovered the life of a digital nomad, which now provides her with location independence. Along with her more relaxed lifestyle, actually intern helped her three X her business in the first year of her travels. I am so happy that Jordanna reached out to me. Cause like I said, I've been watching her travels lately and seeing what she's been up to. And when she reached out, I was like, hell yes. Because as you know, if you're a friend of mine or if you follow the podcast, I started solo traveling this year with the ultimate goal to be, I would love to be location independent, similar to Jordanna, but my career is a little bit location dependent as of now, but I hope to eventually grow that into a lifestyle where at least it allows me to travel for longer periods of time while maybe perhaps having a home base in Toronto. So when I asked Jordanna what's some apps that you've had in your life, like kind of, what do you want to talk about on the podcast? And she said her life has been filled with ebbs and flows, but she wouldn't have had it any other way. She said the ebbs have helped build resilience to take more risk in life, which provide for greater flows. She said the most recent one was when she was burnt out in her last job, working at a digital marketing agency, making little money while taking on all the stress at work. She was also diagnosed with two autoimmune diseases around the same time, which are caused by long periods of stress and hormonal imbalances. We didn't get a chance to get into those topics in this episode. And I regret not doing that because I know myself, I've been feeling such a crazy amount of stress lately. And I feel like my hormones are so out of whack. And I think it's because I'm working so much. but I definitely want to, as I say, at the end of this episode, I want to bring Jordanna back more to dive into the topics we talked about today, but even more so some of the stress and auto-immune diseases and the hormonal imbalances, because I feel like our conversation today only just touched on the surface and. I mean, we were just really giddy about just talking about where we've traveled recently. So this episode is definitely a little bit more girl chatty than a majority of my episodes, but you're going to love it regardless. Overall this episode is going to inspire you to embrace your dreams, overcome roadblocks and create the life that you desire. this conversation with jordanna is highlighting the importance of preparation budgeting when traveling and self care while emphasizing that with the right mindset and determination anything is possible So without further do enjoy the episode and if you're listening and love it share it with a friend and also reach out to me and let me know okay enjoy Jordana, welcome to the show. Hi. Thank you so much for the intro. Janelle, thank you for having me as well. I was super excited when you wanted to come on because I've been watching kind of what you've been doing for the past year, just from afar, and I, I'm inspired. I, that's as simple as I can put it. And I know it took a long time. You're probably thinking about it for a long time before you finally jumped into it. Yeah, I was. I really was. So, You know, it, it all started before Covid. I really like, just wanted to travel the world and have a remote job. Cuz I thought while we're young, it's, it's important not to waste our time in our youth in one place and, you know, just waiting until we're retired to really see the world. Yep. Yeah. So, that's when it all started. But then of course, you know, covid happened and we did start remote working. So I decided, okay, let me take this seriously. Mm-hmm. Um, So I basically did my nine to five. I was working um, a digital marketing agency as an SEO search engine optimization specialist. Mm-hmm. And then I thought, okay, why don't I give it my best shot after my nine to five? I'm gonna work from, you know, eat work from six to 11 or 12 at night to try and see if I can get my own clients on the side and try and see if I can really get my dream going. Mm-hmm. So that's when it all started. I started acquiring my own clients through different means mostly. You know, through friends or business owners I knew, or Facebook groups, so yeah. Yeah, yeah. So it was a really fun process. And then finally in September of 2021 or 2022, probably 21. September, 2022 was just this past year. Yeah, exactly. So September, 2021 is when I really made the jump, so, yeah. Yeah. So before that I just made a um, Like, I'm a big planner, so I made like a six month plan before that and I was like, okay. What do you wanna do in six months? I wanna be out of Toronto. I wanna start no matting. So yeah, I wrote it on my big whiteboard in my place and it came true cause I just like booked a flight. I didn't even like get my, you know, I was like, if you're ready or if you're not ready, your flight's booked and yeah. Yeah, you're off. Jordana is from Ontario, but northern part of Ontario, so very small town. So I think, tell me if I'm wrong, even moving to Toronto was probably pretty impressive to people where you grew up. Yeah. That was one of my first dreams to, to move from live in Toronto. Yeah. So, You know, you're, you're from a smaller town too. Yep. Correct. Okay. People think Toronto's this big, bad, crazy city and it's not at all. Yeah. It's like, I feel like when you first get to Toronto, you, you know, you definitely feel it and like, oh my gosh. I had to have friends like do the subway system with me cause I couldn't figure it out. So I'm like, come with me please. Or we used to drive Vic everywhere. Exactly. Yeah. So, it was a big shocker and I had so much fun in Toronto. Met so many great people. Mm-hmm. Got. Involved a lot in like the networking scene and the event scene. Yeah. And that's how we know each other. Exactly. Yeah. We met uh, we worked for Bumble, the event scene we did, which was amazing. Like, that was back like 2018. Oh yeah. I think we met. Yeah. Yeah. That was a good time. so what, what year did you move to Toronto? Right after university. Yeah. So I guess I graduated 2016. Yep. So right after then I went to Toronto. Nice. At what point did Toronto start feeling lackluster to you? Uh, Great question, Janelle. Yeah. I'm not asking from personal experience at all. Right. Well, you know what it, like, it seemed pretty big for a long time. Mm-hmm. I think probably I think in my like third year, I guess I started third or fourth, I started 2019. 2020, yeah. To feel like, okay, you know, I love Toronto, love the city, but I just think it's, what about it didn't you not like? Yeah, I think it was the chaos. Hmm. Yeah. What do you mean? I wanted, like, I didn't wanna move back to my small city of Sudbury. Well, it's not that small, but, you know, smaller. But you already knew it. You've done it. So you wanted something new. Exactly, yes. I just wanted a change and I wanted something less chaotic. Like, you know, we were, we'd be on the. On the subway system for hours in a day. And if we had side gigs, like I'm sure you did as well. Yeah. You know, you have your nine to five and then after that you're subway into your side gig. So you really spent, like, I would go day spending like probably four hours at least on the subway. So That's crazy. So I, because you you guys lived pretty north. Of Toronto. So you were commuting downtown a little bit? Yeah, so I lived in North York at first and then Dawn Lins. Yeah. And then Queen Street. Yeah. Oh, and one year at Tobik. So I found, but yeah, you were commuting a lot. I always lived downtown, so I've never really done the commuting thing. I've never had a job where I had to commute on the subway. No way. Un until now. Like I commute a little bit on the subway now, just meeting clients. But I always walk to my jobs. No way. Walked, walked or street card. Okay. That's a different life. And I feel like I, I feel like if I subed as much as the normal commuter, I think I would've left Toronto a long time ago. I think it keeps me sane that I don't subway all the time. I think that's a really good point you made there. Yeah. Because you telling me you spent like, even one hour on a subway is crazy to me. Yeah. That's draining. It's depressing. It's so depressing. Like you, you do what you can. Right? Like I would listen to. Informative podcasts and, you know, wellness podcasts or read a book, but at the end of the day, you're still sitting there and you know, in a, how is that a term? Yeah. So, and that, that feeling, you are one of millions. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Whether you live in Toronto or whether live in another metropolitan city. I think the pandemic really showed people a different way. And is that kind of the real, the real trigger that made you think, okay, I can do things differently here? Yeah, I think it made everyone take a step back and learn that they have to slow down. Mm-hmm. And learn to reprioritize their goals, their dreams, desires. So, mm-hmm. That was definitely a point for me to like, you know, cuz during the pandemic, I honestly just like, Besides going out to, I don't know, obviously do groceries. I just used that time to really like meditate every day, do yoga, like work all my dreams and goals. Mm-hmm. So, and then I real, I soon realized, I'm like, whoa, what was I doing for all these years? Like, it's been great, but like, man, I'm like, I never stopped my brain for a minute. It was a hamster wheel. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. It never stops. And I always say the cost of living in Toronto, it just keeps getting worse and worse and worse. And you almost feel like you just need to work all day and you never, you, you make all this money just to kind of barely make ends meet. And at at some point you gotta wake up and think, is this what I want? For some people it is. Exactly. That's, yeah. Like a lot of cities like that. I like what you did where a lot of people will just quit their job, cold Turkey and then start trying to build a business, right? But you were smart. You, you, you know it was gonna be a lot of work, but you knew that, okay, I still need this nine to five to be able to pay for my life. And if I really wanna build something on the side, this has to be my off hours. It's not social time anymore, it's, I'm building. You're exhausted, but. Was there any wins like early on that you thought, Ooh, okay, I can probably build this on my own? Like, do you mean before I started to go on my own? Yeah. Like when you kind of had both. Yeah. At what point did the, did the Seesaw tilt where you thought, Ooh, I could do this on my own? Right. Okay. So, it was when, so. You're right. So security has always been very important for me. Yeah. Um, My dad always drilled that into me and my siblings heads, you know, security, you need that first. But I'm also pretty I like to take risks too. Yeah. So I like to work with my brain because, you know, when, when I need to quit a job, I will quit. So I know that leading up to that moment I need to really stack and focus. Ah. So yet, like you said, you plan, you don't just do things impulsively. Yes, exactly. I plan. That's a good quality impulse. I can jump, you know. Okay, good. You're smart. Everyone listening to this could take some notes. Thank you. Even me. But yeah, so when I, when I decided to make the jump, it was okay Jordana, like once you get enough clients that your, you know, meeting the same salary as your current job, then you can make the jump. So, My last client actually, that I got before I went, like got me just over my, like my 10 salary. So I was like, oh my gosh, perfect. And I just remember the moment because, you know, I was waiting for him to sign and he said he was gonna sign and then I was like, okay, you know what, if you sign this week, like I'll give you a little discount. You know, just, just get me in there. You just wanted that high of like, okay, I've made it. Yeah, I wanted the decision made so he signed the contract. I think I had like at that time maybe, Four, three or four clients. And then, yeah, and then I was like, okay. I gave my work the notice. And then a couple months later I was, I was outta Toronto. Where did you go first? Yeah, I, I did a safe decision. Um, I love, I love your planning. No, most of the people that I have on this podcast and myself included, like if you ever listen to any of my solo episodes, I've done things very impulsively and it's, I don't recommend it. It's pretty stressful. So anyone listening to this, If you wanna make a change, do it the way Jordanna has done it. So where did you go first? So I actually went to it's close to San Francisco, it's called Mountain View. Okay, cool. Um, Because my sister had moved out there to start working. Nice. So, like I said, I didn't know where I wanted to go yet, but I know I wanted to book a ticket so that I at least, you know, I made one step closer. Yeah. So I was like, let me just go stay with her for a bit. Cool. Change of scenery. Let's start there. Exactly. So that was my first move and I stayed probably, I think a month and a half-ish. Yeah. Nice. When you were packing up all of your stuff in Toronto, was it bittersweet? did you feel like it was a really an end, or did you think I can come back here anytime I want? Mm, I did think it was an end of an era. Yeah. Cause I left my, my dearest roommate Carolyn. She's so sweet. Yeah. So I, you guys were together for so long. I know. And we still talk and we're like, yeah, I'm missing. She's the cutest. I always loved your guys' apartments. Yeah. We had, we had pretty nice apartments actually. You guys really did. Like, they were so cozy and cool. I liked them. Yeah. We hustled and, and she was good at decorating. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you felt it was an end of an era. Like the, the book has closed. I did. Cuz I knew I would be gone if not forever, for a long time. Hmm. So, you know, I still go back and visit and I knew I would cuz all my friends are there and stuff. Yeah. But, um, and I love going back to visit. Hmm. But just to live, I don't know, it kind of has a bit of an eerie vibe. Like what do you mean? Not the summers, but, I don't know. I think it's just like, I don't like looking back. Yeah. When I not move forward, I just change things. Right. I change my life. You're not like nostalgic in a negative way. No. Like I just, I get like, I feel weird when I look back because I'm like, no. Like this is your nap. We're done. We're done. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Exactly. That's interesting to me. Once you, once you do leave, yeah. Some people, there are a lot of people that. Like just kind of harp on the past and stuff, and I find it pretty draining. So I'm glad you are similar to me, where once you've moved on and made the decision, you don't look back at all. Exactly. Did you find your business changed or your mindset changed or anything? The moment you changed your scenery? Oh my gosh, yes. Right. I don't think people realize how much of a difference that makes. Honestly. You killed it with that question. Mm-hmm. Um, A hundred percent. That's how I like three Xed. My salary in, in the end. Right. Oh, why, what is it about the scenery change? Is it just different routines? Is it just meeting different people? Like, what is it? I think it mostly comes down to your mindset. Mm. And your wellbeing. Mm-hmm. So, you know, everyone knows this. Like, if you're taking care of yourself, then you're gonna show up better for people around you and essentially your clients or new leads that come in. And you're also putting yourself in a position where, You know, you're open to meeting new people, new business owners, like when you're a digital nomad. And I know you've done, you've done a bit of solo travel yourself, right? Just getting started. So Yeah. We'll chat. Yeah. So, so on that note, once you become a digital nomad and you get into the scene, like wherever you go, there's such a big community of expats and locals who are entrepreneurs and business owners. Mm-hmm. And it really helps connecting because like, There's some clients that I, I worked for when I, I, we just went for a coffee date. They're like, Hey, wanna go for coffee? Yeah. Yeah. And then the next minute they're like, oh, I need seo. Can you help me? So mm-hmm. And, and you're in a better mind state. Like, you know, I had severe, like, I had clinical depression, anxiety, like I have adhd, all the fun stuff, right? Yeah. So. It's just when I moved, like the sun helps, the weather helps, it just changes you. And like I'm much happier, like consistently when I'm in a warmer and sunnier climate. Yeah, yeah. You know, Toronto can be depressing um, especially in the winter months now that the summer's here, the city is coming alive again. Of course. But yeah, I think a lot of people feel a similar way and. It's, it's hard to know how to get out of it and make that first change. So you spoke about being a planner. So the first thing you did was you did almost like a soft move. I'll move where my sister lives. It's a warmer climate. I'm, I still have someone I know I don't have to worry about accommodations. But then what's your next move? When do you really start going digital nomad? Yeah. So about a month or a month, a and a half afterwards. Mm-hmm. I, I was really doing a lot of research when I moved there, so, you know, I wasn't going out too much. I was just working, yeah. Focused on my business and where I wanted to go. Mm-hmm. So, of course, you know, Google's our best friend, so, um, ply Del Carmen, Mexico came up in, Ooh, you know, one of the best locations for digital nomads. And, and so you're googling like digital nomad locations? Exactly. Yep. Cool. And, you know, the, you know, what it costs to live there, how safe it is, what areas to live, et cetera. Making sure there's a big community of nomads there as well. Mm-hmm. So yeah, so that was my first actual move. I, I remember just, You know, ending up in my Airbnb in Mexico, play Del Carmen. And I literally just like started like jumping around in my, in my place. I was like, whoa, this is real. Like I knew no one knew nothing. You nervous? Yeah. I barely spoke Spanish at the time, so. Yeah. Yeah, I was just like, cool. Here we go. Have you always been that confident and willing to take risk and try new things? Sometimes it depends on the road. Cause I feel like even something as simple as booking a flight and moving to an even another country or even another province or state for a, for a month, that scares people a lot. But why, like so many people do it. Why do you think people are so scared? I just think. Like, there's a lot of reasons, right? Like they're used to, people get comfortable in their daily lives and they just think, I don't know, they just think it's, I guess, not normal to do this stuff, or, you know, they have to stay in their comfortable box, I guess. Like, not that that's a bad thing for everybody. But it is scary. Like especially if you don't know the language, if you're away from your friends and family, you know, no one there, a lot of people need to be with people they know regularly, right? Mm-hmm. Just to feel okay. So yeah, I think there's a lot of reasons. Did you talk to anyone prior to that? Or like follow anyone on Instagram that really inspired that digital nomad travel bug in you at all? obviously people know about the idea of being a digital nomad, but at where, how do you get it in your head where you think, yeah, that's what I wanna do. Because you could have easily just stayed in Toronto and kept building your business, right? That's true. I honestly, I think I was reading about it more. Mm-hmm. Like I didn't, I don't really know too many influence or, well, now obviously now, now it's a lot more common. Yeah. But I think there was this one girl from, she was actually born in my hometown, Sudbury. Mm. She was in Toronto for a while. Her name's Sam Lali. Bte. Mm-hmm. And like I think I saw a bit of her sharing about it, but before I really understood it and I was like, oh, that's kind of cool. Cause so like, I saw one person. I honestly don't remember where she was going, but I was like, oh, it looks like you just travel full time. So, and you're intrigued and you think, yeah. Okay. If, if she can do it, she's similar age as me. She comes from the same place that I grew up. If she can do it, then obviously it's not that hard. Like I can figure it out. Exactly. Yeah. How do you figure out things with visas and how long you're allowed to stay in a country and how do you feel like, oh, I feel safe enough to go into this Airbnb and Yeah. talk about that. Yeah. So I'm kind of lazy in that sense. I'm like, I try and spend the majority of the time on my business. Okay. And like, you know, self-care and stuff. So when it comes to like, Like if a country has a very strict Visa policy mm-hmm. I don't even bother. So what I do is I look for areas that let Canadians stay for, you know, five months, three months, almost as like just traveling. Exactly. Okay. So I never have to really do too much paperwork. Okay. Cool. Cool. And then are you still filing taxes as Canadian? Yes. Okay. I'm sure that's the part that's coming up now that you're like, Ooh, okay, this gets a little complicated. You know what I thought it did? Um, But it's not it. So the law actually recently changed because I incorporated at the beginning of the year finally. I was so late to that. Uh, I have two too, so don't worry. Right. It takes time. It's one of those things that you just keep putting off. I need it in admin assistant asap. Exactly. So, I put it off for a while, but finally did it. And my corporate lawyer was like, okay, look, they actually just changed the law. Cuz before you had to be in Canada for, I think it was at least 750 days out of like five years. So essentially um, the year you had to be living in Canada Okay. To have the corporation unless you have, you know, directors, business directors living. Okay. In Canada, which I, interesting. Okay. Yeah, so now it's fine. So now I can travel. I, I have heard there's issues with healthcare that you have to reapply after a certain amount of months, but honestly I've never had that issue and I've been gone for quite a while. I do come back and visit, but you know, this year I'll probably be gone for almost a full year, so I'll get back to you. Amazing how that works. Okay, so you left in September, 2021. Mm-hmm. You went to California first to your sister's? Yes. Then you go to Mexico, where next? Mm-hmm. Play Del Garmen. Yeah, I went to Mexico. I did that for five months. So that was a stint. Did you learn the language while you were there? Yeah. That was one of my goals. So I, so he fluent. Yeah, well, semi I'm learning Spanish right now, so that's really cool. How are you learning? Through an app called Prep Play. It's like a online tutor. Okay, cool. Yeah, highly recommend tutors. I got a, you know, in-person tutor in Mexico, and that was like game changing for me. And did you just learn, especially if you are a solo entrepreneur, you're probably not hanging out with Spanish people all the time. So how did you learn on your own outside of being tutored? I, okay, so of course I started on dual lingo like. Yeah, a year ago or whatever, but I found one that's called Pimsler. I, yeah, that's what I'm doing as well. It's good. No way that that was, it was boring at first, but now I'm like, I like listening to it as I'm going and I think I'm gonna realize later on, I'm like, I know all this, like, phrases in vocab just randomly. And I'm like, oh, what? How do I know that? And it's cuz I'm just like listening to it. Honestly, I tried so many things. Pimsler was the one that worked, so I did that just before I went to Mexico to have a bit of a understanding. And then so from there, and also to keep up with Spanish, my kind of rule of thumb is always go to countries and cities that speak Spanish. Okay. So that'll push you. That's not too English speaking. Exactly. So I keep up. Yeah. And then from Mexico I hit up Puerto Rico for a bit. Cool. Mostly for music festival. Aronian. Yeah. What, what music festival. Aronian. Oh, that's so cool. Yeah. Love that. It's all Afrobeats, right? Yes, yes. Oh, I knew. I, I think we like similar music. Yeah. It was like, I'm not a festival goer or a partier, but I will go to like Afro Nation Afrobeats or Afrobeats Fest. Yeah. Amazing. So how long were you in Puerto Rico? I think it was about three weeks. Okay. In total. So, and then we're next. And then after Puerto Rico My friends actually from Canada hit me up and they're like, we planned a California trip, let's go. So let's go back. Yeah. So I went for, I think that was about two weeks. So we went around California, hit up some different cities. And then after that I went to, I went back home for a bit for Toronto in the summertime to visit. Okay. That, so you weren't depressed then, cause I remember you saying you went back Christmas time this past year and you were depressed. Yeah. But so you weren't depressed summer 2022? No, cause I was there in the summer and, you know, I got to catch up with friends and family. Mm-hmm. So that was that. And then at the end of the summertime, I headed over to. Spain my favorite. Oh, cool. I haven't been yet, so you really need to tell me what you end up doing. I will, that that's the place where I'm gonna go next for some travels. Okay. I'll let you know. So, okay. Because I lived there for about three months total. Cause that's where you can stay. I did, no, I did two months in Seia. Oh yeah, I heard it's freaking hot. When I was in Portugal in April. A lot of the people I met was coming from Seia, Silla or Seia? SEIA. Seia. Yeah. Yeah. And they were like, girl, it was like high thirties. Oh. Like 40 Hot. It was 40 the first day I arrived. It was hot. But you loved it? I loved it. It cause it wasn't like, I don't know, I just love it. I love Spain, so I was like, I don't care. Like I don't care where I am. Yeah. Where else did you stay? Um, So I stayed in Sevi two months and then I headed over to Las Palomas. Okay, cool. So it's um, a part of the Canary Islands. Mm-hmm. So Grand Canary Islands, so yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was fun. I did that for a month cuz that was my three months in total. Yep. And then after that I went to New York uh, well, yeah, to, to live for about, I think it was two months. Did you find that similar to Toronto? I didn't like it as much as why it was almost too big. I, yeah, I think it was cuz I was also living like outside of the city. Oh, okay. I lived um, uh, where was I living in Queens? Yeah. And it was just like, it, it was wintertime by then. Like it was almost winter, so it was pretty cold. You know, My mood was shifting and like work was getting more stressful. So I don't know. I really just worked like, like 10 hours a day, 12 hours a day. You don't associate good memories with the place? No, I don't. No. So, you know, it was, it was good here and there, like weekends I would go and check out the city sometimes. But yeah. But, and then where next? Then you came back home for Christmas, right? Yeah, so then I came back home for Christmas. And you said it was awful? Yeah, it was nice to see the fam, but I think the winter really hit me like, you know, I just really needed some sun and. I didn't know where to go next because Mm. Like choice exhaustion is a real thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like it's such a blessing and I'm like forever grateful every day that I get to do this with my, can get picked and go. Yeah. But it's like where do you go? And you feel like there's this huge fomo cuz now that you can be anywhere in work. There's like a billion countries out there. Right? And you're like, oh my God. Like I have fomo. Why am I not there with my friends? Or, you know? Yep. So, so yeah. So I had a little rough patch for about two months, and then I finally, actually you inspired me, Janelle. All right. And you went to Costa Rica, right? Yeah, so I went to Costa Rica. Oh my God, that's so nice that I inspired you. That's so cool. Yeah, because I kept hearing like, You know, everyone was posting about Costa Rica, but then I think you are the last, you know how you have to see an ad seven times before making Yeah, I was the seventh. Yeah. So you were the number where I'm like, you know what? I need to make a decision by tomorrow. Let's do it. Let's go. And so you went probably around this time that I was still there, or maybe right when I came back. When did you go, I think right when you came back. It was um, beginning of March. Oh yeah. No, I came back mid Jan. Oh, okay. So yeah, I was just there for two and a half weeks. Okay. So yeah, so I did about a month, just under a month in March. Yep. In Santa Teresa. So I stayed there. Nice, isn't it? It's really nice. Yeah. Some of the best sunsets I've ever seen in my life. It really is. Like the nature is out of this world there. I love it. But the one thing is the technology and the resources cause Yeah. Costa Rica as a whole. Yeah, like my laptop broke the second day I was there and they literally couldn't fix it. They're like, yeah, we can't really get the parts here. So I was screwed and thank God people let me, you know, bore their laptops until I got a new one. But yeah, that was, it's like, that's your entire business. If you're digital nomad your entire life is this computer. Yeah, I'm a mess. So, but that start to, to a new country. Yeah. So I think that gave me a little bit of a sour taste. But, you know, I'm not writing it off yet. I just will probably go there for visits. So where are you now? We're, we're coming into mid-May. Where are you now? yeah, so right after there I came to Panama City. Mm. Which I'm staying for two months, so I'm like a month and a half in. And so you're almost done. So do you have the next place picked already? Yeah. So I have booked until beginning of August, so two months in Panama City, which is. A beautiful place. I love it here. You love it? Okay, cool. Honesty is such a good place for nomads. It's like, it's kind of like a tropical Toronto, but like, Ooh, better. Okay, cool. Yeah. And next I'm going to the Algarve to go, girl, I'm so excited. When do you go? I'm so jealous. I'm following you. It looks. Like girl, I literally just got back not even a week ago, and I'm dying. Pictures. Your pictures. I was like, yes, cannot wait. So is, are you doing all Portugal or just Algarve? So June the Algarve, I'm staying in Lagos. And then July. I'm staying in Lisbon, but I might have to check out Centra at some point because I've just heard. Yeah, yeah, I do. Centra just for like a couple day trips. Are you gonna do Port? I loved Port. I have to, I have, I don't have a plan cuz I, I don't know, I just go up for like a weekend to check it out. Yeah, I think I'll do that. You can take the train from Lisbon. It's uh, 3, 4 hours. Yeah, I might do that then. It's really, really simple and enjoyable to go up that way. Okay, I will do it. Yay. I think you'll really like Lisbon, I found Lisbon to be very similar to Toronto. So Lisbon is trying to become, what I hear is they're trying to kind of becoming the next like tech hub. They're trying to be like a Toronto or an Austin or something like that, but. like a, a rooftop that I went to on my last night there and like, I feel like I'm at the Broadview Hotel or like LaBelle or like something. Yeah, it's, it seems pretty multicultural. Like the vibes are good. It's very like young, cool city. I think you'll love Lisbon. What about the language? all English really? Okay. That's good timing. Yeah. You won't have, well, it's Portuguese, so I, I came back being like, do I learn Portuguese instead of Spanish? I think I'm gonna wanna learn both. Yeah, I, it would be so cool if you can learn both. I know, but I think I'm just tapped with like that, like, um, you'll be fine. you probably won't use your Spanish at all. Um, okay. But it'll be fully English speaking. Okay. That's good to know. Thank you. Yeah, you don't have to worry at all. Yay. And I, I'm also, I have a good friend there who I met in Mexico, actually. Cool. She's a digital nomad. Her name is Vanessa and she's from the Algarve. So, you know, she's, I would live in the Algarve easily. Right. I think I will really like it. So I'll have people there and some of our friends from Mexico too are gonna be there. Yeah. Um, So I think it's gonna be a really good time. And it seems like. it has similar vibes to Spain too. I love the, like the castle, like you know, the tranquil vibes and, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's my style. I love that we're having this conversation because when I came back from Portugal, so when I came back from Costa Rica, I definitely had post ation blues, but I think it's because I was coming back into the greatest worst time of Toronto and Canada. Yeah. Um, And I think it was just more just like, okay, I just came from a really warm climate and now I'm like, start of a year. I've been off for a month. Let's get back into it. But when I came back from Portugal, there was a part of me that I was excited to come back just to get on the grind again. I was excited to like get back to my business, but Toronto was feeling pretty lackluster to me lately. Ah, interesting. I think I only got a couple years, maybe three left in me. Okay. That's interesting cuz your job, you know, you're a real estate agent so I know, you know, you kind, you have to be there. Right. But it's the only thing keeping me here. Oh, I got shivers. Yeah. So my, I don't know if I told you this before, I've told a lot of people, but like my longer term goal of what I wanna do is I wanna sell real estate in either Europe or Latin America. Oh, perfect. So that's why I'm learning Spanish and learning another language to be able to open me up to those opportunities. So yeah, I love real estate. Like that's what's keeping me here. I love my career. But I, when I was in Portugal, I was meeting a couple real estate agents and one of them was like, you know, if you can sell in Toronto, you can sell here. Just move. I was like, yeah, you're right. It's so true though. Like, I see, I don't know, I just see from my Instagram account, people who were real estate agents in Toronto and now they're in Mexico or other countries. Well send me their profiles. I was gonna say connect you. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I, I, Like, you can do anything anywhere, right? So as long as you wanna stay in the country or you can do, if you have the travel bug, you can, you know, just go to Portugal and you know, in the summer months you can just be a real estate agent there. And then if you want to try out Mexico or Panama, Yeah. You know, I'm sure it's a bit harder with the qualifications, but mm-hmm. You can do it. You're a, you're a worker. Yeah. There's gonna be a way that I'm gonna figure out how to do it all, even if it's like, okay, my life is in Toronto, but I've built my business in a way where I can leave for two to three weeks at a time and everything's gonna be fine. Yes, exactly. And do you know what a lot of people from Toronto. Are starting to invest in, you know, places in different countries and they're starting to wanna move away for the winter, and not just go to Florida. Right? Yeah. So that could be an option too. You can be the go-to for. Those people. That's the plan. It's uh, the dream is there. The, the dream is very clear. It's just a matter of figuring out all the steps between now and then. Yeah, you still got time. You're, you're super young, so yeah, you've got time. I agree. You, you have this amazing podcast, so you know you have different things going for you as well. So, yeah, we'll figure it out. I wanna ask you a couple questions before you go around, like cost. So were you ever worried about like, how much things cost? Like obviously you're, you're building your own business, so every country you change, you would figure out the cost of living, the cost of food. Like, did, does that ever worry you or are you like me and I think if I can afford to live in Toronto, I can afford to live anywhere. Exactly. It's, it's a bit of both to be honest. Like, like I said, I, I'm usually pretty prepared and I'm, I'm really good with budgeting because when you have your own business, like, it's like, okay, let's say one day all your clients leave you, which I hope they don't, and I have contracts, so, you know, but, but still, you know, just worst case scenario, if all your contracts end tomorrow, like, will you be okay for a certain amount of time? Yeah. So I think it's being prepared, a, like having that cushion and then b like. Financially, I feel like most countries right now, like nowadays are pretty on par to Toronto. I'll be honest, Santa Teresa is nuts. Hey. Oh, Santa Teresa. That's why I stayed. I feel Santa Teresa worse than Toronto. Oh yeah. I, that's why I stayed there less than a month. Cause I'm like, I just don't, you know, there's other places that are on par or less. I agree. So not Santa Teresa, Costa Rica's just. Is really expensive. Yeah. But other places like, you know, Mexico, Spain Panama City and, and wherever you go, there's different options. Right. Because I have friends who will get roommates. Right. So it's a lot cheaper. Yeah. Or you can get your own place if you, you know, budget for it or you can live in a co-living space. So there's so many different options, depending on your budget so there's something for everyone. Yeah. You know, you just have to really know like what you want and what you can afford and go for that. I think a lot of people put roadblocks in front of them. And they create them like no one. Those roadblocks don't need to be there. They're making it harder to achieve than it really needs to be. And I find they look at other people, I'm sure there's lots of people that we know that are looking at you being like, oh my God, that's so, she's so inspiring that she can do all of that. Like it's so cool. And it's like, You have all of the resources and tools that Jordana has. Yeah. If you want, what Jordana has right now, you have the ability to create it. Maybe not overnight, but you have the ability and the options to do so. Of course, yeah. Anyone does. It's just if you want it. Right. Some people don't. Mm-hmm. Which is totally cool, like not a lot of people do, but you know, if you like doing this for an adventure, if you like seeing the world, if you. Don't get homesick as much or, you know, you're okay with being away and being alone a lot of the time because like, honestly, a lot of the times it does get lonely. Yeah. But like, I'm, I don't know, like I've always been okay being alone. I don't know why, but you know, and then you make friends, right? Like you just join these WhatsApp groups, these Facebook groups and you know, if you wanna go to a get together, you do. If you don't, you stay home. So, You know, there, there's something for everyone. It's just, you're right. You have to want it and you have to start planning for it. I would say, Do you find it hard moving around a lot and maybe just living out of a couple suitcases or do you like that? I do find it hard moving around a lot. So, you know, I'm always like, okay, you need to find somewhere to stay for at least like four months. Hmm. Cuz when you said, you know, in, Portugal, like, oh, maybe you could take a weekend trip. Like, I, I tense sucks. I'm like, oh my God, I'm traveling so much. But like, It stresses me out. Cause I do like to feel settled to focus on work mostly. And yeah. You know, like some weekends I, I end up just working. Right. So, of course. But you know, in your second question Before I started Nomad, I started looking into like minimalistic and yeah. You know, getting rid of a lot of stuff and I realized it really helped my mental health. Yes. So I actually love it cause I only have a certain amount of outfits and like I. I don't really go shopping cause I can't, which I've never liked shopping. I, I just bought a copy. Oh, good. Fair enough. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I, I honestly love it. It's funny that you mentioned that even if you want it to go shopping, you know that you might have to move again in a month and you're like, I actually can't. Put this anywhere nice. My luggage is already overweight with, you know, my wellness stuff. So No, of course you can't add anything else. how long do you think you'll be doing this? Is this a new lifestyle or is this just something that you want to do for a couple years and then find a home base that you really want long term? Yeah, I think. You know what? I've been contemplating that myself because I'm really into my business and I really wanna like grow it and I just have so many ideas. So I think I'm gonna travel a bit more until I find somewhere where I'm like, okay, this is my base. I think Spain to be honest, but I had to. Yeah, girl, I'm following you. I think I'll be over there. Right? Okay. We'll, we'll link up then and we'll talk. But yeah, I think. Pretty soon I wanna narrow in on my base. Okay. And then I still want freedom to travel. So like Europe would be great cause I can travel anywhere. Mm-hmm. And then, you know, maybe I can go back to Toronto in the summers to visit or when it gets colder in Spain. You know, Panama City is great. Like, it's, it's always warm here. So yeah. I'm happy I discovered this place. So, yeah, I think it's more finding maybe like one, two, max, three basis. No, I agree. Yeah, I think Europe was good. I keep going back and forth between Latin America and Europe, but from my experience, and again talking to you and other people, I don't know if Latin America has the infrastructure that I think we're used to in Toronto. Like mm-hmm. I like I live in. Close to a grocery store and I don't want to carry a box of soda water to my house, so I order it from Amazon. Yes, like we, you don't have that in Latin America and we also don't have that in Europe. But I think it's go, I think it'd be tougher to get used to that in Latin America as opposed to Europe. Do you know what though, Janelle? I think you should try Panama City. You think I'd love it. I think, I think this would be the perfect fit for you, but I totally agree. That's why I think I would go with Europe, over Latin America. Yeah. And also something we didn't discuss, but like safety as well. Yes. As like solo female traveler is way more safe. Yes. Like honestly, I feel like pretty safe in Panama City. Like it's probably one of the safest places depending on Costa Rica. Obviously you felt safe. Yeah. Depending on your area. Mm-hmm. But. Costa Rica, like sometimes I didn't. I think it's more like the cat calling really gets to me like, yes, when you're alone walking, even like at night, if I have to run an errand, And it's just, it's so uncomfortable. Cause you never know, like if they're drunk, you know, it could just be cat hauling, which is super annoying to start with. Mm-hmm. Or it could be worse. It could be worse. They could be drunk. Like the other day I ran into like some construction workers and like they were getting a, they were aggressively cat calling me and like circling around me. I'm like, oh my God. Like we just walked. This could end really badly. Exactly. So like, you know, and it does happen to people, like, you hear stories and you're like, wow. Like, That could happen. So I think that's like, I wanna feel safe. I wanna be able to walk. I love walking everywhere. That's one of my must-haves. I need to be able to walk everywhere. So Europe seems like the better fit, I think. Lisbon's gonna be good. I think so. Oh yeah, I'm excited. Do you know anything about Astrocartography? Astrocartography. Yeah, like the univer, like the stars and all that stuff. Is that what, so basically it's almost like looking at your birth chart, but instead it comes up as like a world map and basically, I don't know how much truth there is to it, cuz obviously basically there's a bunch of lines and I'll say like, this is the part of the world that you'll feel most like yourself. This is the part of the world where you'll probably go through a lot of growth. This is probably where you would find love, have success anyways. You should look yours up. Oh my gosh. Okay. Send me that after. So I remember that. Thank you. It's hard to read, but once you figure it out, you can figure it out. No, I don't know. Like, it's like anything. Even with astrology compatibility, someone could say, oh, like a Taurus and a Gemini would be the worst compatibility. But like you could also find someone that's been married for 65 years. It's so true. It's so true. You know, there's obviously so many other things, so I know like there's certain lines in the world that I'm like, I think I would really love that place, even though it's not putting the positive lines there. But I'm like, There's so many other factors, you know, where's your positive line? I have a lot going through Brazil and Bueno airs. Okay. Yeah, a lot going through there. And a lot going through Indonesia and Australia. Yeah, a little bit of everything. Oh, that's cool. You know what? I almost went to Buenos iris. I think you should check it out. I've heard great things. Yeah. And I've had friends live there and they absolutely love it. And they loved it. Yeah. You know, you know where I have absolutely no lines, Toronto, like, not even any bad lines, like literally just blank. Nothing. And that's honestly, that's how I feel. I don't dislike Toronto, but I don't love it. Like I'm very neutral about it. Yeah. I think it was a big jump sense though. Sense like, You know, for right years ago where you moved to Toronto and it's like, wow, it's the big city vibes like you made it. But then, yeah, but then you, you adapt to it and you get accustomed to it and you're like, oh, maybe it's not everything I thought it was, which is totally fine. Like not everything usually is. So you just gotta keep moving overall, because I know you have to go overall in the last couple years. Yeah. You're about two and a half years into this change. Mm-hmm. What have you noticed that has changed about your life and just like changed about who you are as a human? Like what do you, what are you happy and proud of? Yeah, so I've been traveling for about a year and a half now, a bit over a year and a half. Mm-hmm. I think I'm most proud of like my adaptability. you know, cause it's so scary. Mm-hmm. So like, I was freaked out obviously, like I just try not to show it. But I was just like, wow. I made it like, I can get by speaking a total different language that I didn't speak like a year and a half ago. Like, sure, I knew a few words here and there, but now I can get by, have conversations. One of my goals was to meet people all around the world. So now I'm like, wow, I have friends everywhere, like mm-hmm. The other weekend, my friend I met in Mexico was like, Hey, I'm coming to Panama, like I'm staying at this hotel on this island. Come join me. I'm like, cool. So like, of course, you know, like you meet a lot of different people from different backgrounds, different countries speak different languages. You network with a bunch of different business owners or just people in general, and I think your mind just. Really expands and you start to see that like, whoa, anything is possible. Like, I don't think I'd be this far in my business if I stayed in the same place. Mm-hmm. Because your mind just hasn't matched up to that like capacity of like what's possible. Hmm. So I think those are like the biggest takeaways. And also just like the importance of self-care and To live in the present, cuz I find in more like Latin American countries, especially in Europe as well. People just move slower and they live like more peaceful, like slower lives. And like you go to a restaurant and it may take forever to get your order in, but I'm like, you know what? True. Like they may be talking to their husband or wife or kid for an hour, but I'm like, you know what? Yeah, that's your family. Go talk to them during your work shift like. You know, why do we have this mindset where like you're at work, like, no, don't get distracted, like, mm-hmm. So I think ju there's just so many little lessons you learn in different countries and I just try and apply that to my life and. Yeah, it just keeps getting better. You know, there's still hard times, there's still, you know, times of confusion, loneliness, stress, but overall, it's been much more positive and healthy Traveling has made me a lot more patient coming back to Toronto and a lot less reactive. Yes, that's a good one. I, I'm not in a rush as much as I used to be. And how has that changed your life? I'm just so unaffected. I feel like a little Buddhist monk. You're like, ok, cool. Not really, but more than I used to be. Exactly. It's small changes, right. So it is last but not least um, if someone's listening today and they want to either go to the digital nomad route or even just to start traveling and exploring different countries. Yeah. What is a few actual tangible. Tips that you can get them and what they need to do next. Yeah, for sure. So, tangible tips, like definitely write out your goals and plan out what you're looking for. So then you can match the country to your goals. Right. Do you want something that's. You know, more fast paced like New York or slower paced like Spain. Mm-hmm. Um, But I would say Google, do your research. Go on Instagram, find out people living the life, but actually try and like, talk to them. Because a lot of the times, like pictures and videos aren't everything at all. It's just the like 1%. Um, What I share is 1%, like I can be like having a freaking panic attack the next minute, and then I post this little thing. But yeah. But I think steps they can make, like they can always reach out to me as well. Mm-hmm. Um, My email for work is hello seo cafe.ca. Or my LinkedIn app. I love that you got that domain. Yeah, I know. I love it. I was so happy. It's cute. Or my LinkedIn at Jordana, Abbott Ball. Mm-hmm. But feel free to reach out, like just send me a DM as well. You can find me on Instagram and I'm more than happy to talk about my experience and help others because I think that it could really change your life. And it's. You know, it's important to have someone that you can actually like, ask real life questions to who have experienced it. Mm-hmm. So, yeah. You're welcome to flood my messages. Of course. Jordana, thanks so much for being open. There's so much more that I wanted to touch on, but I feel like it was just, More like logistics chat and yeah, I think, I hope we gave people just ideas of like where you can go and what your life could look like, the, the good and the bad. But honestly, there's so much more we could talk about. So if you ever wanna come back, like please, please, please come back. Yeah. Um, And uh, as you get ready to go to Portugal, ask me any questions. I love it. Yes, for sure, Janelle. So I would love to join again, maybe after some more locations so I have more information to share. But this was such a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. And we'll definitely keep this going offline to talk about Portugal. Of course, of course. Thank you so much. Thanks. Did you know that I'm not only a podcast host, but in my full-time career, I met Toronto based real estate agent. If you are someone, you know, is a busy professional looking to get into the Toronto real estate market, I highly recommend reaching out to me. You can go directly to my website@wwwdotjenelletremblant.com. And you can click the let's talk button to book a call with me. I work with buyers, renters, and sellers in the downtown and east end areas. So don't hesitate to reach out to me and I would love to help you find your next home. And in the meantime, we'll see you here back next week.